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Standard User Saltank
(committed) Thu 20-Apr-17 20:49:28
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FTTP available but how?


[link to this post]
 
I'm currently trying to get some broadband connected and have placed multiple orders (with Virgin Media, then Zen and then Sky who messed up and then cancelled the order) for FTTC. The building is quite new and there is CAT5E cabling going from a white BT box to every flat.

The DSL checker says FTTP is available, but how would I actually go about ordering it? I tried Zen, AAISP and BT and they don't seem to offer anything more than 80/20.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 20-Apr-17 21:02:24
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Your link just shows FTTPoD , a bespoke, and priced for business product.

But VDSL looks good. Not sure why you've had no luck.

Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Thu 20-Apr-17 21:37:00
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
As Zarjaz says

You only have FTTC available so a max of 77Mb ( up to 80/20 service)

The FTTP in on demand and can will cost much more. It will be a 36 month contract and a installation price that is quite large.

Are you a business as this is what it is aimed at ?

Any of the FTTC providers can provide an upto 80Mb service you should just have to order.

If you really want FTTPoD the only supplier who seems to be dealing in it is fluidone. Some posters on here have prices and have placed orders but it can be £1500+ installation.


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Standard User Saltank
(committed) Thu 20-Apr-17 22:12:28
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
As Zarjaz says

You only have FTTC available so a max of 77Mb ( up to 80/20 service)

The FTTP in on demand and can will cost much more. It will be a 36 month contract and a installation price that is quite large.

Are you a business as this is what it is aimed at ?

Any of the FTTC providers can provide an upto 80Mb service you should just have to order.

If you really want FTTPoD the only supplier who seems to be dealing in it is fluidone. Some posters on here have prices and have placed orders but it can be £1500+ installation.


80/20 is too slow and there's no scope for any increase in the future! Also I've been in a place with 60Mbit in one flat, and the one above it only had 40Mbit so YMMV a lot by this technology, so I'd like something better.

Thanks for the explanation, FTTPoD is primarily business only - now I understand what it's all about.

I ordered Zen FTTC (cancelled the line at the old place after moving and now waiting a disgusting three weeks for the BT Openreach engineer, unacceptable when Internet is so essential these days!).

Also ordered Sky shortly after I placed the Zen order in the hopes that they'd send someone out sooner, but they made an order on my virtual landline number and then had to cancel the order and didn't bother to place it again. I will give them a pass this time around.

Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Apr-17 22:55:54
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Too slow for what? What do you do on the internet and how many users at home?

Get 2 80/20 connections and load balance them if you need more, it'll be considerably cheaper than FTTPoD.

The descrepancies in speed over neighbours is often down to poor internal wiring and or poor quality equipment.

Trying to place 2 orders with 2 suppliers at the same address simultaneously isn't going to help matters.

What happened with the Zen order?

Edited by lee111s (Fri 21-Apr-17 08:40:07)

Standard User Realalemadrid
(regular) Thu 20-Apr-17 23:02:08
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Placing multiple orders is not a good idea, it's bound to cause confusion with the different suppliers ordering from BT, presumably on the same telephone line (except for Virgin of course) and what do you mean by your virtual landline number?
Standard User Saltank
(committed) Thu 20-Apr-17 23:03:42
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lee111s:
Too slow for what? What do you do on the internet and how many users at home?

Get 2 80/20 connections and load balance them if you need more, it'll be considerably cheaper than FTTPoD.

The descrepancies in speed over neighbours is often down to poor internal wiring and or poor quality equipment?

Trying to place 2 orders with 2 suppliers at the same address simultaneously isn't going to help matters.

What happened with the Zen order?


Placed the order on 7th for Zen. Then Sky on the 9th, and was going to cancel Zen if Sky got an engineer out sooner, but they called and said they have to cancel the order because the idiot who took the order made a mistake, so now it's just Zen left!

80Mbit is too slow for very large downloads. Steam downloads, for example can be very bandwidth intensive! I realise I'm being a little bit cocky but 80Mbit is considerably behind VM in download speeds.

Standard User Saltank
(committed) Thu 20-Apr-17 23:07:20
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:
Placing multiple orders is not a good idea, it's bound to cause confusion with the different suppliers ordering from BT, presumably on the same telephone line (except for Virgin of course) and what do you mean by your virtual landline number?


Zen placed my order as a "restart of a stopped line" order, but Sky just typed in my SkypeIn virtual number as the one they're going to provide a service for, so it's their clerical error and shouldn't have anything to do with how many orders are placed.

Besides can you blame me for trying to get FTTC installed asap? Three weeks to get internet installed is appalling customer service and I am surprised it takes more than a few days, don't care what anyone says.

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 20-Apr-17 23:10:37
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Took me 2 weeks to get FTTC on a new cabinet and I think I was one of the first to order. Then another month to get a defective underground cable replaced with "in spec" cable and its still not finished.

Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and TP-Link WD9970 on 80 Meg LLU Fibre
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Apr-17 23:24:26
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Not really, you can download around 30GB/hour on an 80mbps connection - hardly slow.

Whilst Virgin may have a higher headline speed, a lot of people can't get that due to network congestion issues. Virgin's latency can also leave a lot to be desired.

Realistically how often do you do massive downloads that are needed to be done immediately and can't be set to run over night?

Another speed obsessor methinks.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 21-Apr-17 01:56:22
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Your sig - IDNet Business Priority Fibre 75/16?

With it linking to a January 2012 speed test result tongue wink.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 21-Apr-17 06:22:51
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
TBF Tim, no one, let alone you, was aware of the duff cable until you were able to order faster speeds. Once identified its resolution has only been slowed by having to get civils done.

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 21-Apr-17 08:19:20
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Ordering from 2 different ISPs is unlikely to make any difference as the work is done by OpenReach and so will be booked in to the next available slot for engineers in your area - ISPs are treated equivalently and so one ISP does not have a priority over another for engineer time.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Fri 21-Apr-17 11:09:55
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The way to beat equivalence is to pay for it...

Getting a repair done depends on the care level that the ISP pays for the line, but I don't know if this has an impact on the initial installation queue.

Last year, Sky dropped their lines from care level 3 to care level 4, adding 24 hours to the repair time. BT went the other way. Don't know about Zen.

However, I recently read that FTTC has a minimum of care level 3, but I haven't confirmed this yet.

IIRC, the standard installation target is 12 working days, possibly changing to 10 in future.

In any case, installation can be expedited. You'll need to pay, and you need an ISP willing to go through the expedite process for you ... low cost ISPs aren't set up for it, while business ISPs might be.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Fri 21-Apr-17 11:15:42
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Saltank:
Besides can you blame me for trying to get FTTC installed asap? Three weeks to get internet installed is appalling customer service and I am surprised it takes more than a few days, don't care what anyone says.


The work might not take long. The problem is the other 100,000 people also waiting for the installation to happen.

If you ordered 3 weeks before moving in, you'd be sorted by now...
Standard User Saltank
(committed) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:38:53
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by Saltank:
Besides can you blame me for trying to get FTTC installed asap? Three weeks to get internet installed is appalling customer service and I am surprised it takes more than a few days, don't care what anyone says.


The work might not take long. The problem is the other 100,000 people also waiting for the installation to happen.

If you ordered 3 weeks before moving in, you'd be sorted by now...


Didn't know I'd be moving up until the very last moment.

Also, a neighbour claims he ordered sky three days ago and their engineer is coming on Monday, so I was inherently frustrated as to why they get one so soon. They claim it's for "Sky Fibre" so they must mean FTTC!

I asked the Zen rep if I can expedite it - they said no, we get assigned an engineer once the order is placed.

I don't understand what happened to those days when you could pick a convenient time slow for you, like PlusNet used to do.

Standard User Saltank
(committed) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:40:01
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Your sig - IDNet Business Priority Fibre 75/16?

With it linking to a January 2012 speed test result tongue wink.


Yes I haven't bothered updating it... that was at a business line and my experience at home since has been subpar and nothing to brag about!

Standard User Saltank
(committed) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:45:00
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lee111s:
Not really, you can download around 30GB/hour on an 80mbps connection - hardly slow.

Whilst Virgin may have a higher headline speed, a lot of people can't get that due to network congestion issues. Virgin's latency can also leave a lot to be desired.

Realistically how often do you do massive downloads that are needed to be done immediately and can't be set to run over night?

Another speed obsessor methinks.


I used to have 100Mbit in this same area (same street actually) with Virgin Media some time ago, it was pretty good (aside from the throttling). I also sampled 150Mbit for a time in another area until i cancelled due to the congestion issues you mention. However, I don't foresee any issues here as of yet.

Realistically, if I need a massive download, I would like it at 25MB/sec.

Just because FTTC is available at 80/20 doesn't mean it's ok to be complacent and excuses should not be made for these massive telecoms companies that can't be bothered to keep up with implementing the download speeds people really deserve.

Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:49:31
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
Well, I guess it's a case of you can't always have what you want.

Unless you want to pay circa £17k for 3 years of FTTPoD and get 300mbps for the odd occasion you need to download at 25MB/s.

Edited by lee111s (Fri 21-Apr-17 17:54:40)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:50:47
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
To expedite the order must be initially placed with the extra expedited fees paid, £150 if I recall, but also think it has been dropped for FTTC.

Install slows are on a first come first served , and some providers do odd things like move the phone and give ADSL for a few days before the Openreach engineer visits the cabinet to flip over the VDSL2 part.

As for the old days, there was a lot less people ordering FTTC and other services and not so much network construction work under way.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:53:16
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
Or look at timescales for G.fast.

Generally for every moan that VDSL2 is slow, I see several more complaining they cannot get it, and Openreach and BT Group are under much greater pressure to make services more widely available than they are to increase speeds for those who already can get good speeds.

The switch to doing G.fast is timed so that almost all the BDUK work will have finished, releasing staff to work on the commercial faster than VDSL2 roll-outs

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 21-Apr-17 17:57:08
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Indeed.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what the cost to upgrade a PCP to a G.Fast cab is... and if they'll offer if via a CFP in time.

It's of no use to me, at about 600m incidentally (and still without VDSL wink )
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 21-Apr-17 18:00:53
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
I could guess, but don't want to because people then take it as fact and forget it was a ball park figure.

CFP in its current format is all about getting something superfast delivered, so don't expect the g.fast pods to be part of it until perhaps 2020 when we might see g.fast nodes located away from cabinets nearer to premises, or if FTTP proves popular and a money maker G.fast might fade away.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Saltank
(committed) Fri 21-Apr-17 18:57:55
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Or look at timescales for G.fast.

Generally for every moan that VDSL2 is slow, I see several more complaining they cannot get it, and Openreach and BT Group are under much greater pressure to make services more widely available than they are to increase speeds for those who already can get good speeds.

The switch to doing G.fast is timed so that almost all the BDUK work will have finished, releasing staff to work on the commercial faster than VDSL2 roll-outs


Yes that makes sense, but they do have to keep up with demand, too.

It's kind of like Virgin Media oversubscribing customers in an area just to get as many on board as possible... and what happens next? Nobody cares, someone else's problem!

I need to read up on what this G.Fast is, I am behind smile

Standard User witchunt
(member) Fri 21-Apr-17 18:58:51
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: Saltank] [link to this post]
 
If it's a sky engineer then it's just to install the sky TV.
When we had sky TV installed the guy was surprised that our broadband was already active. I wasn't though !

Edited by witchunt (Fri 21-Apr-17 19:01:17)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 21-Apr-17 19:06:18
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
To expedite the order must be initially placed with the extra expedited fees paid, £150 if I recall, but also think it has been dropped for FTTC.
GEA-FTTC Expedite / Point of Sale GEA-FTTC Expedite Note 2 01/04/2013 196.00

Was previously £180. Both plus Vat and possible intermediate CP markups if passed on the the end user.

Note 2 says: The Expedite charge is payable in addition to the FTTC connection charge. The charge is only raised if the revised Customer Committed Date is met.

Which means even an expedited order can fail to meet the target. Presumably over the last couple of years with the pressure on BDUK contract completions ISPs have found it not worth the effort.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Saltank
(committed) Fri 21-Apr-17 19:45:13
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Re: FTTP available but how?


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
If it's a sky engineer then it's just to install the sky TV.
When we had sky TV installed the guy was surprised that our broadband was already active. I wasn't though !


They were confident they're getting internet but I'll find out later.

In the meantime I am still hopeful that the Zen install on the 26th will go ahead and because the internal wiring is brand new that the connection will be as close to 80/20 as possible, then I can sit and wait for G.Fast.

Also have a Virgin Media order but it got pushed back because the building isn't actually wired and it's a dodgy situation and we are trying to pursuade them to use internal wiring (some flats have coax cabling and some don't) - VM's solution was to run a new cable to every flat which would ruin how the building looks.

I'm on the fence about it, but if they can use existing cabling I would be happy, if not, I might just cancel and stick with the FTTC smile

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