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Standard User scr0t
(member) Tue 15-Aug-17 14:45:55
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Just above handback threshold speed


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

I moved into a new (old) house a couple of weeks back. The cab is 100m away as the crow flies, but takes an overhead route that takes the line length to around 400m (according to OR engineer). I've already had Openreach out to put a new master socket in as the previously installed old LJU2 was hanging off the wall.


My 'problem' is that I'm way below the estimated speed (yes, I know it's only an estimate) and only slightly above the handback threshold.

Checker:
http://i.imgur.com/ggxMhSU.png

Router Stats:
http://i.imgur.com/FDvmoHyh.png


The engineer that replaced the socket basically said that's all it can do, due to the overhead cable route. But even with that, based on 15dB attenuation I would have expected better? Lots of errors accrue on the line, but doesn't drop out from what I can see.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 15-Aug-17 15:32:18
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: scr0t] [link to this post]
 
15dB is roughly 400m, so those two tie together. I would have expected to see attainable speeds of around 80-85 down and 23-23 up.

With a nominal 6dB for the SNR margin it suggests that there is a lot of noise on the line from various sources. An overhead will pick up less cross talk but more atmospheric/terrestrial.

Are you able to access the signal [/i and line ]attenuation figures for each band as opposed to the single sample line attenuation?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User scr0t
(member) Tue 15-Aug-17 15:47:33
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
No I don't believe my modem/router can output those (TP Link VR900). At least you're confirming what I thought and that it should be better. Would older spec dropwire cause additional noise without increasing the attenuation?

Edited by scr0t (Tue 15-Aug-17 15:48:08)


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 15-Aug-17 16:00:16
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: scr0t] [link to this post]
 
Depends on how old? If it is the old figure 8, then probably. You are loosing around 40Mbps - that suggest 10-12 dB of additional noise being picked up.


Does DSL Stats work with that TP link?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User scr0t
(member) Tue 15-Aug-17 16:13:44
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
The property dates back to about 1850 - so god knows how old the cable is. But even if it turns out to be really old spec, can I actually get OR to change it?


No - DSL stats doesn't work, and the CLI interface doesn't yield any more info on line stats.

Edited by scr0t (Tue 15-Aug-17 16:14:40)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 15-Aug-17 16:16:53
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: scr0t] [link to this post]
 
Your line appears not to have a fault so I doubt they would replace unless you get some really helpful people from OR. Also, as far as the handback is concerned they could possibly just treat this as a get out clause for the contract - but if you have no other option then the ability to cancel the contract without penalty doesn't help much.

If they consider yours an impacted line then you are actually well above the handback and within the estimates.
Standard User scr0t
(member) Tue 15-Aug-17 16:27:42
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, as far as I can tell the handback threshold is just a get out clause meaning they can say take it or leave it - so doesn't really help!

Agree with what you said, there's no fault on the line - but frustrating that it could/should be much better if it weren't for dodgy or old spec cables (possibly)...
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 15-Aug-17 16:44:26
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: scr0t] [link to this post]
 
You could say that every line should be faster if the cables were better, if the cabs were closer (ie there were more of them), if the lines were better separated, if the cable was shielded, etc.

As it stands the tech is designed to use what is already in the ground (or strung between the poles). There are many things that could improve a number of lines but they cost money and that would raise the costs of running the network - and as most consumers spend as little as they can get away with on Broadband any increase to costs would not go down well with most.
Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Tue 15-Aug-17 18:03:16
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: scr0t] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by scr0t:
The property dates back to about 1850 - so god knows how old the cable is. But even if it turns out to be really old spec, can I actually get OR to change it?


No chance unless you offer to pay for all the work. If you only have a single pair drop wire you could always order a 2nd line which may force them to do a new run, but obviously you would have to pick up the cost of the 2nd line install & service then move the VDSL (presuming there is capacity on the cab)
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 15-Aug-17 18:14:54
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Re: Just above handback threshold speed


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
openreach have no idea what consumers want because ofcom wont let them deal with consumers, that alone makes that reasoning void.

the revenue given to openreach is severely held back by ofcom, so the real reason is it is like this is nothing to do with consumers but it is because ofcom want it this way. It is an artificial setup.

Whether or not consumers are tolerant of price rises depends on how they are educated on broadband and what they perceive the rises to be for, if we look at the retail voice market e.g. , the cost has gone up whilst at the same time the service received at best has been stagnant, so there is no extra value associated with the cost increases, instead its either going to shareholders or subsidising other parts of business such as EPL football rights.

In countries where there isnt such big regulator intervention and a more natural way of business has happened, we find higher usage of technologies such as vectoring and FTTP.

BDUK areas give openreach more finance per property than commercial areas, and that alone is evidence that when allowed to the money will be spent on better rollout, such as long reach vdsl and vectoring.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 15-Aug-17 18:17:10)

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