General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 13:44:08
Print Post

FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[link to this post]
 
I've had a long conversation with a chap at BT, and it turns out as my property (new build) is FTTP, it seems that my only option on the provider is BT..

I don't want to be tied in with BT as my only option, what are my options? I don't need a fast connection, I don't want to be tied into paying more for something I'm not going to use.

I can't be the only one in this situation, but I can't find any information out there. It's very frustrating. Any help would be appreciated.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 13:56:52
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
If you enter your postcode at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/packages we should filter to show the FTTP packages at the top, if they don't appear shout at me as it may be new FTTP I don't know about.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:01:19
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreachís FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You canít have an ADSL service though.

Edited by lee111s (Thu 28-Sep-17 14:23:29)


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:04:06
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sjwright:
it seems that my only option on the provider is BT..


Not really, you can also order Openreach based FTTP services on Zen, IDNet, AAISP - however going with BT is probably your cheapest option once you factor in the offers.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Netgear Nighthawk X10 running Voxel
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:08:20
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
The other option would be mobile data ... what's the 4G coverage like there ?

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:09:20
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lee111s:
Sky, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreachís FTTP network.

I assume you mean BT as you yourself have also said Sky don't currently offer FTTP?
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:23:10
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Don!
Standard User WilliamGrimsley
(experienced) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:28:55
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
Do you mean "Doh!"? Haha!

William Grimsley.
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:29:34
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: WilliamGrimsley] [link to this post]
 
Not doing very well laugh
Standard User tomse43
(learned) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:33:23
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lee111s:
BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreachís FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You canít have an ADSL service though.


Isn't that meant to say 'can'? smile
Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:33:51
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I'm currently using a EE 4G month-to-month, it works well, but it's expensive. I do stream netflix from time to time but I'm no heavy user by any stretch. I'd see its the bandwidth I don't really need if that makes sense.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:40:11
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tomse43:
In reply to a post by lee111s:
BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreachís FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You canít have an ADSL service though.


Isn't that meant to say 'can'? smile

The OP address "might" only be FTTP and have no copper, if so, then no ADSLx

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User tomse43
(learned) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:43:00
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I've not heard of that before but yes possible! smile
Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:43:23
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tomse43:
In reply to a post by lee111s:
BT, Zen and AAISP are pretty much your options. Sky and TalkTalk etc have chosen to not yet offer their services on Openreachís FTTP network.

The price for Infinity 1 and 2 is the same prices as it is for FTTC.

You canít have an ADSL service though.


Isn't that meant to say 'can'? smile

If the developer planned for FTTP then I doubt it Openreach would also have installed copper, which means he canít get an adsl1/adsl2+ service.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Netgear Nighthawk X10 running Voxel
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:09:09
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
I think that's going to be your best bet for now. Hunt around and see what the best mobile data deal is going to be.

Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:09:20
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Surely it makes sense to go for Infinity 1 which is around 30 quid a month woth no worries about usage then? Rather than worrying about going over and spending more on data?

With more higher quality content being available, itís not hard to chew through hundreds of Gb per month without thinking about it, especially if you watch netflix. 4K HDR content uses about 10Gb per hour.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:12:28
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
I've not heard of that before but yes possible!

I could take you half a dozen plus large new build estates round here where Openreach FTTC is the only service.

I believe it is the way forward, so unusual to see posts of the OP's ilk.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:13:36
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
But then it seems likely the OP will still be paying for a mobile contract of some sort on top of the FTTP service.

Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:24:52
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Said heís using EE 4G month to month, so I assumed no contract.

If it is a contract, then see it out and get a fixed line service, imo.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:42:20
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
Agreed ....

Seems odd to have someone post on here about only being able to get FTTP ...... different strokes innit.

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:44:10
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I've not heard of that before but yes possible!

I could take you half a dozen plus large new build estates round here where Openreach FTTC is the only service.
FTTP?
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:46:03
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Seems odd to have someone post on here about only being able to get FTTP
He's saying he's been told that BT is his only option
Standard User tomse43
(learned) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:46:16
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I couldn't understand that either, thinking well they could just go for ADSL but I wasn't aware that some new builds are FTTP only, which is fantastic, but it's still quite a niche market for a standard homeowner.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:48:25
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
It is an issue when it significantly limits supplier availability. Same issue potentially with the fibre providers like B4RN - it is all great when they offer what you want at a competitive rate but if your supplier options don't offer the choice you need then it is a seriously limiting factor. The fact so few suppliers currently resell OpenReach FTTP does mean that most are left with the slightly more premium priced options rather than the cheaper options available on FTTC.

There are quite a few that just want cheap reasonable service rather than being forced in to a FTTP service that is beyond their needs.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:49:54
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
Even where ADSL is available it isn't necessarily a useful option. My brother had ADSL when he first moved in to a new build and it was less than 2Mb/s. Luckily they rolled out FTTP to him but that limits package/supplier choice - so either really poor unreliable ADSL or limited choice on FTTP.
Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:51:14
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
Just spoken to the guys at AAISP and sent an enquiry to Zen. Excuse the french, but this has really fudged me over! It seems FTTP providers are expensive unless I go with BT, and I don't want to go to BT! Makes me sad, I just want a good old copper line with an ADSL service on it, up to 20mb with unlimited bandwidth. Boo!

Looks like BT are my only option, I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC? 🤔

Thanks for everyone's feedback by the way, really appreciated
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:55:12
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
A fair number of people would pay good money to be in your position. But, it does mean you are limited as to your choices until more suppliers start to supply the FTTP solution. Other suppliers could provide it but until the number of FTTP installs is higher they don't seem to see it as worth their while.

And from BT perspective it would be a waste to install copper when the government/lobbyists are all calling for FTTP as the "future". You have the future unfortunately a lot of suppliers are still living in the past.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 28-Sep-17 15:57:19
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
I understand your reservations about going with BT but the cost difference is ridiculous. At least you can select the lowest speed available to keep the price down and it should just -work- being FTTP.

Are you planning to have a land-line phone?
Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:01:16
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
True story. Unfortunately, when that 'future' limits you to only one viable supplier, for me it negates the benefits. Anywho, think I'm going to have to lump it and ask the nice people at BT to do me a good deal...
Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:02:26
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Nah, I don;t need a landline, I'd only be using it for internet
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:08:05
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
There are likely quite a few people whose only "viable" supplier for reasonable speeds is Virgin - and I suspect quite a few of them aren't happy at that as well. At least BT do wholesale their network (albeit mostly because they have to) so there is the expectation that other ISPs will start selling it but with Virgin there is no wholesale requirement so it can be Virgin or nothing with no definite prospect that the position will ever change.

And as I said there are areas that have been built by other companies using fibre - that is a pure monopoly and whilst at present things seem to be going fine that may not be the case if the company providing goes bust or has to change business model.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:09:15
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Looks like you have the best thing available then - fast internet, no need for a landline. This is what many people can only dream of.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:11:56
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sjwright:
Just spoken to the guys at AAISP and sent an enquiry to Zen. Excuse the french, but this has really fudged me over! It seems FTTP providers are expensive unless I go with BT, and I don't want to go to BT! Makes me sad, I just want a good old copper line with an ADSL service on it, up to 20mb with unlimited bandwidth. Boo!

Looks like BT are my only option, I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC? 🤔

Thanks for everyone's feedback by the way, really appreciated

What speeds are you referring to?

Zen's Unlimited Fibre 2 (FTTP) (£46.99 inc Line rental) prices are around the same for BT's Infinity 2 (£49.99 inc Line rental).

You only see a huge increase with Zen's packages when you go above those speeds due to the fact you have to get a business package.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:14:59
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Looks like you have the best thing available then - fast internet, no need for a landline. This is what many people can only dream of.

You still have to have at least 1 phone line when you have FTTP, even if its only FTTP and no copper you get given FVA.

So at least you will have to have your phone line with BT unless other phone providers sell FVA.

We chose to have our phone line moved from copper to FVA due to our copper line was rubbish and was always dropping the line.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)

Edited by PaulKirby (Thu 28-Sep-17 16:16:40)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:20:35
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Luckily they rolled out FTTP to him but that limits package/supplier choice - so either really poor unreliable ADSL or limited choice on FTTP.

,,, which leads me to the question I've asked often before .....

.. Other suppliers are already in the head end exchanges, have the links there (for FTTC) why not offer an FTTP based service ? It's a good product, why limit what you can offer your customers ?

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:22:31
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
He's saying he's been told that BT is his only option
Then that person needs their wrist slapping for giving mis-information. Btw based, yes, 'BT only', incorrect.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:25:45
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
I wonder if it was an Openreach decision to put FTTP in place over FTTC?

Nope, that was the choice of the estates developers.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:29:11
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Other suppliers could provide it but until the number of FTTP installs is higher they don't seem to see it as worth their while.

Go to Wokingham, nearly 5000 houses going up by the A329M, all fibre only, I think CP's are being very short sighted.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:32:40
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Yes FTTP, two estates in Spencers Wood (more coming) Three in Wokingham, more due in Bracknell, one just down the road from me in Aldershot, (loads more to come there) .......

This is all on top of areas now having it rolled out much faster due to the new connectorised equipment.

Just remembered another FTTP only estate in Worplesdon near Woking .....

Edited by Zarjaz (Thu 28-Sep-17 16:33:39)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:58:00
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
There is a no phone line wholesale product

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User No_One
(committed) Thu 28-Sep-17 17:18:12
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Could be worse. 2 new estates in my town have a full FTTP network but it's owned and ran by a company called See The Light. There is no BT/Openreach network at all. You either have to subscribe to See The Light for calls and broadband or you go without.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 17:35:15
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
.. Other suppliers are already in the head end exchanges, have the links there (for FTTC) why not offer an FTTP based service ? It's a good product, why limit what you can offer your customers ?


Two obvious reasons spring to mind:

1) As the number of customers able to order a Openreach based native FTTP service on the whole are relatively very few, it doesn't make financial sense for the ISP to spend £1000s to train staff and develop ordering systems which will potentially benefit very few customers.

and/or

2) Based on some of the horror stories you hear about some FTTP installations by Openreach, it may be that Sky, TalkTalk, Vodafone et al don't trust Openreach to install FTTP within a reasonable (4 weeks?) time frame. Obviously in the case of FTTP installation delays, the punter will blame the ISP when clearly Openreach will often be the cause.

FluidOne FTTP On Demand 330/30 Mbps
Netgear Nighthawk X10 running Voxel
Standard User lee111s
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Sep-17 17:44:34
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I get that, somewhat.

However itís ironic that the ISPís not yet offering the services are the ones whinging that Openreach donít provide customers with fibre connections to give them access to better speeds.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 17:49:22
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: lee111s] [link to this post]
 
+1

Standard User sjwright
(newbie) Thu 28-Sep-17 17:51:18
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Ok ladies and gentlemen, I've spoken to BT and this has given me more questions than answers.

The lady in the FTTP Connections department told me my only option was BT as they had 'made an investment in the development'. When I pointed out that it sounded like BT had monopolised my choice as a consumer, she said 'other suppliers had the opportunity to provide a service but had chosen not to'.

This concerns me. Does this mean that it's BT and not Openreach who provide the line in this scenario? If it's Openreach, I don't see how they can legally do this, as it was my understanding is that they had to offer their infrastructure to wholesale. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this

I've raised a complaint as I strongly feel that I shouldn't be penalised for a decision I had no control over in my choice of supplier.

I'm tempted to request a copy of the conversation, none of this feels right or honest.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:02:08
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Nope, BT and a few smaller BTw based ISPí are the only ones who have opted to provide service over the FTTP infrastructure that Openreach provided at the developers requests.

Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:03:56
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
There is a no phone line wholesale product

I never said there was.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:04:00
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Itís Openreach and is offered wholesale. Itís just not many providers have taken them up on it. We donít know why.

Icaras
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:06:21
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
If you limit yourself to the big five providers, then the choice is just BT and this is something like 93 to 95% of the market for broadband in the UK.

There are smaller providers as others have pointed out who can supply, issue seems to be they don't reach the price point you want.

If you were talking to someone in BT Consumer FTTP connections, I don't know why you would expect them to give you a list of their competitors? Does Sky do the same?

If you were talking to someone working for Openreach (and all those that are have been TUPE now into Openreach) then rules were broken, to the extant that maybe this may have missed the caveat about the large providers.

So Openreach infrastructure is made available at the wholesale level, and I think there is some misunderstanding being made by you, and not helped perhaps by those answering your question on the phone.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ben_phd
(learned) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:06:43
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Iím in a similar situation, except Iím delighted to be getting the opportunity to get FTTP! Bit annoying about the lack of provider choice, but Iím hoping thatís temporary and will come in time as FTTP does seem to be expanding more and more.

Id say what you were told isnít true

From my understanding, someone can correct me if Iím wrong here:

- Openreach install/own the fibre (like they would the copper lines)
- BT Wholesale offer a wholesale fibre to the premises product that any ISP can take up
- Limited ISPs offer a service on the BTwholesale product, but they all have the opportunity if they wish. some have, only 3 or 4 I think? Annoying, very much so!

Saying BT has made an investment is fine, but it sounds like theyíre generalising ďBTĒ with the 3 separate Openreach/wholesale/retail companies which can be interpreted easily in the wrong way... as it wonít be bt wholesale or bt retail who have stumped up the money to put in the fibre
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:07:47
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
I've highlighted this a few times in talks, and once new Openreach logo appears on the ONT (i.e. no mention of BT at all) some might change, never underestimate the corporate branding.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:14:51
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
On these new build Openreach FTTP only estates everything up to and including the ONTE are already in situ and lit before the properties are even sold . It all having been installed new the New Sites wallahs during development.
Openreach knows what the ONTE serial number is for each plot ... thereís flyers left showing how to order ... the ordered service is remotely built and switched on (can be as quick as the day after) and bingo .... sorted.

If everyone had that same theory about not wishing to train staff because the ROI would be too slow, where would we be ? You for one wouldnít have your FTTPoD service for starters. Maybe no ADSL ... as no one wished to cough up to train staff to fit and fault it. etc etc.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:18:25
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ben_phd] [link to this post]
 
Good reply. smile

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:20:15
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Me new van has no mention of BT on it, still seems to confuse many.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 28-Sep-17 18:23:59
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: ben_phd] [link to this post]
 
Zen Internet

£43.99 for unlimited 38 Mbps down, 9.5 Mbps up service (inc line rental)

Its not as cheap as BT Infinity 1 in the first 12 months, but once outside the minimum term the price is pretty much the same.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 19:18:55
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sjwright:
The lady in the FTTP Connections department told me my only option was BT as they had 'made an investment in the development'. When I pointed out that it sounded like BT had monopolised my choice as a consumer, she said 'other suppliers had the opportunity to provide a service but had chosen not to'.


Interesting...

A couple of years ago, we went through a phase where brownfield FTTP sites (ie not new build) were being quoted excess construction charges by Openreach, in order to connect to the FTTP infrastructure, even if it was just across the street. That felt strange too, when FTTC orders would never get any kind of ECC charge.

The problem seemed to go away when BT (at retail level) chose to consume the excess construction charges without passing them on to the householder; other ISPs would not match that offer.

I always wondered, then, if this was one reason why other mass-market/cheap ISPs didn't want to get involved - because it would mean getting involved with ECCs, and possibly having to pay out for them.

In reply to a post by sjwright:
This concerns me. Does this mean that it's BT and not Openreach who provide the line in this scenario?


I wonder, then, in your case: has BT chosen to pay some excess construction charge.

In reply to a post by sjwright:
If it's Openreach, I don't see how they can legally do this, as it was my understanding is that they had to offer their infrastructure to wholesale. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this


The legal position is more complicated than that.

First, it is down to the developer to decide who to engage to provide utility services. They don't have to choose BT. The government is keen to ensure there is competition in supply to new-builds.

But conversely, the law has put in place a USO requirement that BT provides (at minimum) a line capable of voice service and 28kb dial-up speeds. However, this USO comes with the ability to charge ECC's, and (importantly) doesn't apply if the land-owner is not giving permission for Openreach to install their equipment.

The roads on new-build sites are private, until everything has finished, and been adopted by the council. Openreach has no right to use them unless the developer agrees.

So ... some developers choose a different supplier for fibre services. Anyone buying a house is essentially locked-in to that supplier (see the mention of "see the light" above) at least until the road gets adopted ... perhaps 3 years after building has finished.

I also wonder what happens to some of these estates being built without proper freeholds.

So you are in a strange legal limbo in a new-build. As it is feasible for a developer to reach some kind of lock-in agreement with a third party fibre supplier, I wonder if it is also possible for a developer to lock-in BT as a supplier instead ... at least until adoption.

It's only a theory ... and I could see how BT's name could become mud for doing it. But it might also be the only way that excess construction charges can be recouped. I wouldn't put it past a developer

Thoughts anyone?
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:02:40
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I think you've misunderstood Andrews reply. wink

Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:06:15
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
I think that's only available to existing customers though.
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:13:04
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you're quite right, but I can think of a way round it...

If the OP had a friend or relative who would be willing to let him/her order an ADSLx service at their premises (may require another line to be installed at said premises), s/he could join PN on ADSL then do a 'house move'. There have been several cases of PN ADSLx customers moving to FTTP only areas and being accommodated onto the PN FTTP trial.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:19:39
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Rastus:
I think you've misunderstood Andrews reply. wink

Its possible, its been a very long day for me today LOL.

I know with BT we had to keep our line, I know I wanted to transfer our number over to our VoIP Service due to our copper line is bad and faulty, but BT told me we need to have an active phone line and if the copper line was that bad we could have it moved over to FVA and that it costs the same per month.

Which was why I had the phone moved over to FVA, to which our phone line is now crisp clear, so we are now happy with the phone line smile

And then BT became ass hats and then charged us a deactivation fee for the copper line, even though there was no mention of that fee, so I wasn't happy there.

In reply to a post by Rastus:
Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

Yeah, but isn't PlusNet's FTTP (trial) only for already customers?
If so then that is only relevant if the user is already a customer of PlusNet, but if there is only FTTP and no copper lines and the user isn't already a PlusNet customer there is no chance in them getting FTTP from them.

But those prices do look nice smile
I wonder what price it becomes for higher speeds like 300 Mbit etc.
Its like Zen's prices for 40 and 80 seem fine, sadly anything above those speeds and the price goes sky high.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:26:52
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I believe 80/20 is PNís top FTTP package.

Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:28:31
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I believe 80/20 is PNís top FTTP package.

Ah, ok, wasn't too sure.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310.95 Mbps (down), 29.37 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:33:47
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In reply to a post by Rastus:
Besides, there's no need to have a phone line with PlusNets FTTP (trial), which AFAICS is the cheapest by far, £22.49 / £17.49 pm for 80/20 or 40/2 respectively with no phone line.

Yeah, but isn't PlusNet's FTTP (trial) only for already customers?
If so then that is only relevant if the user is already a customer of PlusNet, but if there is only FTTP and no copper lines and the user isn't already a PlusNet customer there is no chance in them getting FTTP from them.

See my reply to Batboy


But those prices do look nice smile
I wonder what price it becomes for higher speeds like 300 Mbit etc.
Its like Zen's prices for 40 and 80 seem fine, sadly anything above those speeds and the price goes sky high.

PN only offer the speeds I quoted at present (80/20 and 40/2) so the higher prices aren't relevant.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 08:21:37
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: sjwright] [link to this post]
 
Very interesting thread. I've just found it googling for info, because my son is moving into a new build flat, and to my amazement all the FTTP gubbins is already installed, and lit up.

He's a first time buyer, on a very tight budget, myself and my wife are having to help considerably
financially (or we'll never get rid of him !) It does seem unfair he'll have to pay for a premium supplier (or in the case of BT, premium prices for non premium customer service !)

It has been suggested in another forum, that if you 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP you will end
up with a provisioned service, but reading the comments in here, that doesn't appear to be the case ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 08:31:47
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Specifics are the key here...

' 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP' this will only work if the provider is retailing the GEA-FTTP service.

Even if you order from BT Consumer the price should be in the
£26.99 to £31.99 for the entry level Infinity 1 product (up to 52 Mbps)
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...
Package due to update this morning, but offers vary usually within that range and claiming reward softens it.

After 12 months the price jumps but trick is to migrate to someone like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen/packages/fib... at £43.99/m or negotiate a rate reduction in return for another fixed term with BT. Plus in 12 months time it is likely more people will be retailing the FTTP version so might be more choice.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 09:01:20
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Specifics are the key here...

' 'blindly' order a 'fibre' service from any ISP' this will only work if the provider is retailing the GEA-FTTP service.

Even if you order from BT Consumer the price should be in the
£26.99 to £31.99 for the entry level Infinity 1 product (up to 52 Mbps)
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/unli...
Package due to update this morning, but offers vary usually within that range and claiming reward softens it.

After 12 months the price jumps but trick is to migrate to someone like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/zen/packages/fib... at £43.99/m or negotiate a rate reduction in return for another fixed term with BT. Plus in 12 months time it is likely more people will be retailing the FTTP version so might be more choice.


Thanks Andrew,

He will certainly want 'unlimited', and being a 'young person' doesn't need to worry about the voice side of things ! He had budgeted on 20-25 quid/m for broadband, so going 5-10 quid over won't be too much of a disaster, we'll help him with that. Yes, good point, 12-18 months on there should be more FTTP ISP choice to use a stick with BT, or migrate to.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 09:22:40
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
The rewards that lower the impact of the price have just a gone, but at a guess will be back on 19th if in no hurry

Rewards range between £75 and at an absolute peak £150

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 10:01:07
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The rewards that lower the impact of the price have just a gone, but at a guess will be back on 19th if in no hurry

Rewards range between £75 and at an absolute peak £150


OK, as with all house purchases, it'll be glacially slow !

Just one thought, I wonder what would happen if he 'blindly' ordered fibre from Plusnet ?

They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 10:30:00
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
If it was installed in your name, it would probably be dealt with as a house move, so you'd lose the broadband you have at the current address.

You can try blindly ordering if you want, but usually gets no where beyond the address look up which then offers ADSL or nothing

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 11:22:29
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
You can try blindly ordering if you want, but usually gets no where beyond the address look up which then offers ADSL or nothing


The concept seems over complicated. In essence the provision as far as the ISP is concerned is the same as FTTC, the demarcation point remains the same, a PPPoE port on a BT Openreach modem, it shouldn't matter whether that's a VDSL box, on an 'ONT', I'm obviously missing something here ?
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 13-Oct-17 11:41:38
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Youíre missing that the ISP has to be selling a retail FTTP package for you to be able to buy it.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 11:57:53
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Youíre missing that the ISP has to be selling a retail FTTP package for you to be able to buy it.


If only there was a telecoms regulator that would encourage the separation of 'means of delivery' from 'products', and you simply order and pay for whatever can be provided by the available infrastructure
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 13-Oct-17 12:18:54
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
It is the various CPís that choose not to offer service over the Openreach FTTP network.....

The excuse Iíve heard offered before is that they donít wish to have to give staff additional training.

Quality

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 12:31:30
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Training
Branding
Cost of GEA Handover links - which has just recently dropped a lot so things may be changing

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 12:47:22
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
It is the various CPís that choose not to offer service over the Openreach FTTP network.....

The excuse Iíve heard offered before is that they donít wish to have to give staff additional training.

Quality


But in this instance (an already installed FTTP infrastructure [1]) what involvement that is specific
to FTTP (over FTTC) do the CPs have to get involved with ?

[1] Or even a pre existing FTTP install, that the consumer wishes to migrate from
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 15:29:57
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Backhaul from the handover exchange

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j0hn83
(committed) Fri 13-Oct-17 16:30:00
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
If the property is FTTP only, with absolutely no copper, you won't be able to order fibre from the likes of Plusnet. The databases differentiate between FTTP/FTTC.
Any supplier who doesn't offer FTTP won't be able to take the order on the 1st place.

No idea where you seen that suggested but it won't work.
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 17:17:27
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
No idea where you seen that suggested but it won't work.


In a recent discussion in the uk.telecom.broadband Usenet group

Edited by broadbandjockey (Fri 13-Oct-17 17:17:52)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 13-Oct-17 17:18:53
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Can you link to the discussion?
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Fri 13-Oct-17 17:32:18
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:
They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?

As discussed earlier in this very thread, with this suggestion offered.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 17:38:49
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Can you link to the discussion?


The easiest way is via Google Groups portal (of course GG isn't Usenet !!)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.telecom.b...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 17:55:03
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
I think this got highlighted too you but repeating here, i.e. while FTTP has a top residential speed of 330 Mbps

Packages at 38, 52, 76, 100, 200 and 300 Mbps should all be available as options (but not all those selling FTTP will offer all those permutations)

"so in short if he just 'innocently' applies for a 'fibre'
internet service with an ISP of his choice, it should all happen as if
it's an FTTC install"

That statement which is by you, is a totally inaccurate statement and WILL NOT HAPPEN, unless the ISP also sells the FTTP service to customers, the hint is given by a provider when you look up the address at the start of the order journey.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:04:50
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Oh I see the suggestion came from Magenta Systems. Oops blush
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:21:42
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options? *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by broadbandjockey
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:22:41
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
I think this got highlighted too you but repeating here, i.e. while FTTP has a top residential speed of 330 Mbps

Packages at 38, 52, 76, 100, 200 and 300 Mbps should all be available as options (but not all those selling FTTP will offer all those permutations)

"so in short if he just 'innocently' applies for a 'fibre'
internet service with an ISP of his choice, it should all happen as if
it's an FTTC install"

That statement which is by you, is a totally inaccurate statement and WILL NOT HAPPEN, unless the ISP also sells the FTTP service to customers, the hint is given by a provider when you look up the address at the start of the order journey.


Yes, understood. Point of order though, you left out the question mark on the bit you quoted from me, it wasn't a statement, it was a question !
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:26:05
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Rastus:
In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:
They do retail FTTP, but of course as discussed only as a trial for existing customers.

I'm a Plusnet customer, I wonder if there's a loophole there, where I could get the service installed for him in my name ?

As discussed earlier in this very thread, with this suggestion offered.


Yes, it's certainly a loop hole, but quite a bit of effort, and I'm not sure the net cost after all that would make it viable ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:41:01
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Okay so answer to question is a total NO

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:42:36
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
A big oops

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:54:27
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Not much effort IMO!

You may need to pay for a copper line to be installed to be able to order ADSLx unless you or a friend has a 'spare' one available.

PN don't charge for the FTTP install so there's an instant saving.

They also don't require you to retain a copper line so there's another saving (but they charge a perfectly reasonable (IMO) £2.50 p/m surcharge if you don't have a landline with them), so there's a big saving on line rental.

Monthly costs are £17.49 or £22.49 p/m for 40/2 or 80/20 respectively without PN landline, and yes, that's for 'Unlimited'!

One caveat is that you can't have a TV package on the FTTP trial as their back-office systems don't accommodate that.

TIP: If you do order a PN ADSL landline and broadband deal don't enter a contract for the landline, go for a monthly deal. It may cost more per month but you won't be tied in to a landline contract so you can then cancel said landline without penalty.

EDIT:
PS don't forget it doesn't have to be a PN landline, so you may be able to find a good deal elsewhere regarding copper line installation costs.
2nd EDIT:
Although the landline wouldn't need to be PN, it would need to be BT based, i.e. not LLU.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps

Edited by Rastus (Fri 13-Oct-17 20:20:37)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 13-Oct-17 18:57:53
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
NOTE:

There are some developments where you cannot order and install a copper line, voice services are over fibre optic and a lot of the time it is the ones where the FTTP is pre-installed - big clue is if there is a battery back up unit next to the fibre ONT (modem)

Without knowing the address and checking on https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm hard to say. What the poster will see if its a FTTP only site, is no mention of ADSL2+ services at all.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Fri 13-Oct-17 19:02:21
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Understood, but the idea is to get the copper line and ADSL service installed at another address, then apply for a 'house move', as per this post.

EDIT:
PS - provided the posters FTTP is BTOR based of course!

FTTP 80/20 Mbps

Edited by Rastus (Fri 13-Oct-17 19:05:00)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 13-Oct-17 19:17:01
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
big clue is if there is a battery back up unit next to the fibre ONT

Or maybe not, they get fitted on almost all installs ... and the new ONTE's with a built in BBU are nearly upon us too.

Standard User legume
(experienced) Fri 13-Oct-17 23:43:07
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: Rastus] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Rastus:
They also don't require you to retain a copper line so there's another saving (but they charge a perfectly reasonable (IMO) £2.50 p/m surcharge if you don't have a landline with them), so there's a big saving on line rental.


Maybe I misread/misunderstood + have snipped, but that reads like fttp without a copper line will save you paying line rental.
Unless this method is different being a trial, the data only FTTP product from openerach price lists is approx. £100 + VAT more than the price of with a line.
If no copper is available, FVA + DATA is not much more than as DATA alone, though it seems to be more than DATA + copper rental.
It's possible I am mis-reading the OR docs!
Standard User Rastus
(experienced) Sat 14-Oct-17 10:03:49
Print Post

Re: FTTP monopoly - what are my options?


[re: legume] [link to this post]
 
Yes it's probably because PN FTTP is classed as a trial that it's possible to not have a copper line and only pay the prices I quoted. They charge the same prices as their similar speed offerings on FTTC.

Also, PN do not offer a FVA service on their FTTP trial, but if a potential punter in an 'FTTP only' area wants a 'telephone line' there are plenty of VoIP services out there.

FTTP 80/20 Mbps
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to