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Standard User andy_mcgow
(newbie) Mon 16-Oct-17 14:27:17
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New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitter?


[link to this post]
 
Hi all,

(Apologies for the long first post!)

After some degradation to my Virgin Media service, mainly due to bad latency noticeable when loading up webpages (to the point where it didn't even feel like a 100mb/s service) and in gaming (diagnosed via the TB BBQM, still present after a Virgin cable swap, now assuming to be Intel Puma 6 issues) I have decided to jump ship to BT Infinity.

My property didn't have an existing line so an engineer was booked and the job completed on Friday.

When the engineer arrived he assessed the current setup, and said he would run the new line to my existing brown Virgin box on the outside of the house, splice the BT line into the existing Virgin phone line (not the Virgin cable of course), and change the faceplate inside the house. I politely requested that I would prefer him run the new BT line straight from the cabinet into the property because: (a) to me that just makes sense to do the job 'properly' (not that I said it like that to the engineer), (b) as it was a new line, I am very close to the cabinet and due to me playing online games I would like a better ping as possible, so I wanted as little failure points as possible and (c) because I had never used a phone via that line since I'd lived in the house and it wasn't even wired up inside the box/faceplate inside the house anyway - just a loose wire coiled up ready to be connected. To keep my other half happy I did say lets just pull the Virgin phone line out and we could just use the existing hole in the wall to run the new line in through and also then use then existing screw holes for the new BT Master socket/backplate so no drilling required anywhere, keeping everyone happy.

At some point this got last in translation and the engineer cut the line at the brown Virgin box outside the house, a mere foot or 2 away from the holes in the wall. I did pull the existing Virgin phone line out so it was at least finished off with new BT cable. The 'jelly crimp' style connectors were used to splice to 2 lines, however they were just left loose inside the (very ill-fitting and definitely not weather-proof) brown Virgin box, not even in a gel splice enclosure.

My question is, should the engineer of even been touching the Virgin line in the first place (not that I'm bothered about the loss of a Virgin phone line I never used, but rather the overall cut-corners/whichever way is quickest & easiest approach to the job), should the splice of been left exposed as it was, and does splicing a connection have any affect on the latency/jitter on a line?

(For those wondering, from initial tests I'm getting around 49-51mb/s down on the 52mb/s package, 10-11mb/s up - so happy with speed though have had some low's around 10mb/s down. Ping around 18ms which I know isn't bad at all (probably far better than most!), but some high spikes on the monitor which seem to have settled down a bit
but due to the way the job was left and my very close proximity to the cabinet I can't help but feel that it could be better in perfect circumstances! Or am I just being moany?)

BBQM for those interested.

Regards,

Andy
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 16-Oct-17 14:41:29
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
In short, no, this is poor workmanship by the installer/sharp practice.

Ring whoever you ordered the line through and say that the installer has cut off your existing Virgin service without your permission, and get them to come and run a new line, unbroken from the feed to your NTE which should be sited in an agreed location.

Slipshod git, this kinda stuff winds me up a treat.

Standard User tomse43
(learned) Mon 16-Oct-17 14:43:45
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
Was it done by an actual Openreach engineer or a contractor? (Such as Kelly Communications)

Sounds like the work of a lazy contractor, but I could be wrong.

Edited by tomse43 (Mon 16-Oct-17 14:44:02)


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Standard User andy_mcgow
(newbie) Mon 16-Oct-17 14:46:21
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I'm glad you agree. I am a bit OCD about things but as I was writing the post was starting to think I was just being an grumpy a*se about the situation!
Standard User andy_mcgow
(newbie) Mon 16-Oct-17 14:48:27
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
BINGO! We have a winner. Kelly Comms indeed...

Didn't want to say in the original post as didn't want to make blanket assumptions.

In all fairness the lad did say he was new, but it took 3-3 1/2 hours to run a line from the cabinet/post across the street, literally across the street and a couple houses down and then connect my service up.
Standard User tomse43
(regular) Mon 16-Oct-17 15:30:53
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
Definitely without a doubt get into contact with your ISP and request for this to be put right, specifically by an actual Openreach engineer.

I'm sure not all Kelly Comms engineers are bad but I've heard more horror stories with them than successful ones.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Mon 16-Oct-17 16:24:20
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: tomse43] [link to this post]
 
The Openreach engineer that comes out should send a Candid report in for poor workmanship. The Kelly’s installer will then have his £25 taken off him.

Icaras
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 16-Oct-17 16:29:43
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
.....Except the Candid system is such a PITA to use, very few bother.

Standard User MC31
(member) Mon 16-Oct-17 20:52:30
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Spot on mate.

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.
Standard User andy_mcgow
(newbie) Mon 16-Oct-17 21:33:07
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: MC31] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to all who responded! While I guess you should always anyway, it gave me confidence to report it as a fault/poor installation.

Before seeing some of the later messages, I decided to reply to a text I received earlier today from Kelly Comms asking how the install went. I was unsure if to take this route with them directly or go via BT (which tbh, seemed like a hassle). Within the hour or so I had a call back from a very helpful customer service rep. I explained all as above, she completely understood and after a quick chat with a tech on her team had decided to escalate my issue so I should be receiving a call within the next day or so to rearrange an engineer visit.

I am still slightly hesitant of taking this route as she was unable to confirm that the line would definitely be replaced, however she did agree that as it's a new line for a new service, it shouldn't be spliced into existing services, especially VM's. I did explain that as far as I was concerned I wouldn't consider the issue resolved unless I did get a complete new line, unbroken from cabinet to faceplate otherwise I would have to raise the issue with BT, though she did reassure me that as they had installed the line they would take care of me untill it is sorted as a customer.

So fingers crossed! I'll update with any progress.

Thanks again and regards,

Andy
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Tue 17-Oct-17 08:53:43
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
It’s a shame it has that reputation. I find the Candid iPhone app easy to use and have had some great results from it over the years.

In reply to a post by andy_mcgow:
Thanks to all who responded! While I guess you should always anyway, it gave me confidence to report it as a fault/poor installation.

Before seeing some of the later messages, I decided to reply to a text I received earlier today from Kelly Comms asking how the install went. I was unsure if to take this route with them directly or go via BT (which tbh, seemed like a hassle). Within the hour or so I had a call back from a very helpful customer service rep. I explained all as above, she completely understood and after a quick chat with a tech on her team had decided to escalate my issue so I should be receiving a call within the next day or so to rearrange an engineer visit.

I am still slightly hesitant of taking this route as she was unable to confirm that the line would definitely be replaced, however she did agree that as it's a new line for a new service, it shouldn't be spliced into existing services, especially VM's. I did explain that as far as I was concerned I wouldn't consider the issue resolved unless I did get a complete new line, unbroken from cabinet to faceplate otherwise I would have to raise the issue with BT, though she did reassure me that as they had installed the line they would take care of me untill it is sorted as a customer.

So fingers crossed! I'll update with any progress.

Thanks again and regards,

Andy


Its unfortunate you didn’t take the advice given to you on this thread. I wouldn’t let those characters anywhere near my house.

Icaras

Edited by Icaras (Tue 17-Oct-17 09:01:22)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Oct-17 14:24:48
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
A colleague reported an issue with FTTC jumpering via it , the reply came back including photos to show what he was reporting wasn’t correct - it was a photo of the wrong cab .... not even the same kind of terminations in it. He told Candid this, they again told the contractors, and the contractors again sent the wrong photo as ‘evidence’. At this point he gave up .....

Standard User andy_mcgow
(newbie) Tue 17-Oct-17 15:08:32
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Icaras:
Its unfortunate you didn’t take the advice given to you on this thread. I wouldn’t let those characters anywhere near my house.


As said it was before some of the later replies. I'll await the call and see if I can get them to guarantee they will be replacing the line before agreeing to a visit by the engineer. If not I will take it up with BT. If I don't receive a call back by tomorrow, I'll take it up with BT.

Surely they can't all be that bad can they, especially one responding to an escalated issue!? I understand they seem to have a bad reputation but as the customer service rep was so helpful, I felt they genuinely cared and wanted to correct the issue so I'm happy enough to give them that chance.

I can still raise with BT if they are unable to sort it to my satisfaction but I know now thanks to all your replies (which are very much appreciated) what the benchmark should be.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 17-Oct-17 17:00:29
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Icaras:
Surely they can't all be that bad can they,


I would say no, the guy that visited my parents house when they had problems was brilliant he explained everything he was going to do and sorted the problem by fitting a new master socket as the old one was corroded and causing problems.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Oct-17 18:09:49
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chippy_Tea_:
I would say no, the guy that visited my parents house when they had problems was brilliant he explained everything he was going to do and sorted the problem by fitting a new master socket as the old one was corroded and causing problems.


That must have required extraordinary diagnostic, vocal and manual abilities...
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(member) Tue 17-Oct-17 18:32:25
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
In reply to a post by Chippy_Tea_:
I would say no, the guy that visited my parents house when they had problems was brilliant he explained everything he was going to do and sorted the problem by fitting a new master socket as the old one was corroded and causing problems.


That must have required extraordinary diagnostic, vocal and manual abilities...


Did posting that make you feel big smart a**e?

That was not the only thing he did as their wiring was a right mess and they had had problems with noise on their line etc, i was merely pointing out that not all contractors should be tarred with the same brush and some of their guy actually care enough to take the time to explain what they are doing to a couple in their late seventies who know nothing about theses things..

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Tue 17-Oct-17 18:36:26)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Oct-17 19:17:44
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
My Kelly’s experience twice was horrific.

I have zero good to say about them.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Tue 17-Oct-17 19:45:40
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
I apologise for what might appear to be a facetious comment - obviously the engineer must have done an admirable job.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Tue 17-Oct-17 21:38:32
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
Will be interesting to see what they do actually given that all of the Kelly’s installers are self employed. Who exactly are they going to send back? I suspect it’ll be the original guy “go back and sort this out or we won’t give you your £25”.

Icaras
Standard User MC31
(member) Tue 17-Oct-17 22:27:57
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: andy_mcgow] [link to this post]
 
I was concerned I wouldn't consider the issue resolved unless I did get a complete new line, unbroken from cabinet to faceplate

Sorry but that is not how the network works , you at best get a new line ( wire / cable ) from pole / block to the NTE . Back to the cab there can be any no of joints then more in the cab and even more on the E side.Sounds like the install is so so but as for having any / much effect on latency or jitte i doubt it.

You are right to bring it up as it does sound like the cable run is wrong .

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.
Standard User partial
(experienced) Tue 17-Oct-17 23:46:51
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Icaras:
The Kelly’s installer will then have his £25 taken off him.


Kellys and Quinns are paid by the job and not very much money per job. If Openreach guys were paid by the job you would get the same thing. Measure staff on something, don't be surprised if they deliver on that something.

The subbys are there purely to depress Union represented grades pay and conditions. This leads to lower prices for consumers, less overhead for pensions, holiday and sick pay etc. or shoddy work depending on which side you are on. Punters will normally be on the side of lower prices until the subby is issued their job.

Lest we forget, all Virgin, Hyperoptic and Gigaclear work is subbys.

Edited by partial (Tue 17-Oct-17 23:55:01)

Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Wed 18-Oct-17 10:12:36
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Understood. I wasn’t commenting on the pros and cons of subcontractors in my last post. More the logistics of this complaint being resolved. These guys don’t work for Kelly’s (legally they’re self employed), so I’m just interested in how they’ll get someone to put it right. They couldn’t ask another Kelly’s installer to do it as they would refuse due to them not being paid for that job. That’s why I think they’ll just phone up the original installer and tell him he’s messed up the job and to go and sort it or he won’t receive the money for it.

Does the OP really want that guy coming back into the house again? I’d find that pretty awkward, personally!

Icaras
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 18-Oct-17 10:38:09
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Re: New Line Installed - Spliced - Effect on Latency & Jitte


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
In my experience it was the same person coming back. I suspect he will come back and say the jelly crimps have no negative impact on the line and be on his way, in some respects he is correct.
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