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Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(committed) Sat 11-Nov-17 15:36:24
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Fibre speed.


[link to this post]
 
I have copied this post here so as not to take the other thread off topic -

Might want to have a word with the Government then, since they want millions and millions of full fibre rolled out, because apparently millions want it.


I do not believe there are millions and millions wanting full fibre roll out, I recently moved to TalkTalk faster fibre i am getting fairly constant speeds in the high twenties low thirties (not counting the burst) using the TBB Speed checker i am happy with the speed and cannot see a reason to pay more for more speed, my question is why do some members want such high speeds or is it just a case of i can afford it so want the fastest i can get?
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 11-Nov-17 17:48:37
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Price is important, as what the alternatives are. If you can only get sub 2Mbps via a DSL connection which probably costs £20 + per month, you might think that 50Mbps for £42 per month from Gigaclear is a better alternative. Alternatively, if you are in York, Talk Talk fibre optic at £21.70 for 1Gbps is hard to beat and probably more reliable than any DSL alternative.

Michael Chare
Standard User j314
(learned) Sat 11-Nov-17 18:11:26
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Since I went from ADSL to FTTP I've found many improvements from the increased bandwidth, from major productivity jumps (I work from home and can send demo files to clients in 30 seconds instead of 25 minutes) to frivolous entertainment (streaming games with PS Now/Nvidia NOW).

And keep in mind that even the use cases we see as luxurious and unnecessary right now will become standard in time. Go back 10 years and you will find people confused that anyone needed more than 8Mbit down, because nothing needed that kind of speed. Go back another 10 years and almost everyone was content with dialup. As the typical consumer's bandwidth grows, so do the applications for it. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg scenario, I suppose.

Ookla speedtest tells me my 74/21 is "faster than 94% of GB". I'm willing to bet that in another 10 years (or less), that is going to be seen as a bare minimum for a usable connection rather than near high end.

Edited by j314 (Sat 11-Nov-17 18:12:39)


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 11-Nov-17 18:16:51
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: j314] [link to this post]
 
+1

Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(committed) Sat 11-Nov-17 18:40:42
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks MC and J, i remember those days of dial up internet online gaming with a ping of 100+ was not the smoothest but it was a massive buzz being able to play real people, as time moves on we will need faster speeds but i wonder how many people out there are paying over the odds for speed they don't need just because the big numbers look good.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 11-Nov-17 18:59:57
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
I also remember Mary Turner, at the time the CEO of Tiscali UK, saying that nobody needed more than 2Mbps smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 73724/12601Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(committed) Sat 11-Nov-17 20:13:55
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I also remember Mary Turner, at the time the CEO of Tiscali UK, saying that nobody needed more than 2Mbps smile.


I remember the first time i switched from dial up to ADSL and went on Ebay i can still remember the speed in which the page loaded and the wow factor feeling, remember on dial up when the page used to load in sections. laugh
Standard User Snake
(experienced) Sat 11-Nov-17 20:16:38
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
I think price does play an important part in making the decision. However as someone else posted here, its also got to do with how much you will use it (i.e work etc..).

In my case I work completely from home in my current role. However even if I wasn't I want the fastest, most stable speed I can get for what I think is a fair price. Now what I believe is a fair price someone else may not.

For example, today I have Zen Internet, I have been with them for over four years and they have been FLAWLESS. I am on their business tariff since the beginning and paying £75 a month (I don't run a limited company so I cannot expense this).

Now with things like netflix etc.. its becoming more important to have the bandwidth (4k streaming will make the more evident).

But I agree with my comment on my other post. Millions may want it, but if TBB made a poll about how much people are willing to pay for 330mb etc I would say it would sit near £30 max £45 a month.

Snake smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 11-Nov-17 20:19:29
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Snake] [link to this post]
 
Used to do polls and the benefit in terms of use was limited as any result was called out as being a group of geeks responding, not a UK representative sample

On the comment I made it was not with respect to people upgrading from ADSL to FTTP but those people on cable or FTTC who can already stream 4K i.e. in the 30 Mbps and upwards real world speeds

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Nov-17 21:33:56
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chippy_Tea_:
I do not believe there are millions and millions wanting full fibre roll out, I recently moved to TalkTalk faster fibre i am getting fairly constant speeds in the high twenties low thirties (not counting the burst) using the TBB Speed checker i am happy with the speed and cannot see a reason to pay more for more speed, my question is why do some members want such high speeds or is it just a case of i can afford it so want the fastest i can get?


This is one that's asked from time to time. My response would simply be this picture, and to invite you to think about how long it would take your good self on your service to acquire this one game via digital distribution.

https://s18.postimg.org/o6ipwjzix/Voom_Steam.png
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 11-Nov-17 21:38:07
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Snake] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Snake:
I think price does play an important part in making the decision. However as someone else posted here, its also got to do with how much you will use it (i.e work etc..).

In my case I work completely from home in my current role. However even if I wasn't I want the fastest, most stable speed I can get for what I think is a fair price. Now what I believe is a fair price someone else may not.


Ditto. My cable is a business service because I'm also a remote worker. I have to download debug files some of which are small, some multiple GB. Every minute I'm waiting for that core file to download is a minute longer to triage potentially massive customer issues.

Entire enterprises can be brought to a near-halt by failure of our software. Every minute delay is costly.

I keep a second broadband service over a diverse network for resilience too.
Standard User 69bertie
(member) Sun 12-Nov-17 17:27:49
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
Why do I want faster speeds? Simple really. Stuff comes down the wires faster. I don't fear huge downloads any more. I get up at 5am and have about 20mins on the internet. Next log in is at about 7pm when we get back home. I then have a 2 hour window to get things done, watch streaming TV etc. Stuttering etc isn't an option.

I used to have a 1.2Mb/s ADSL connection with a 10Gb cap. I now have just under 70mb/s fibre, unlimited. Value for money? Certainly. I used to pay about £28 (BT) for that ADSL connection (Market A exchange). I used to think of it as very poor value. Yes, it is now costing me another £16 extra a month. But the difference is a total game changer. Before it was' Oi, you're using all the bandwidth'. Pages would stagger into view, downloads would take forever. Sometimes it would all just fade away. i.e we'd get disconnected etc for taking too long.

Now, sometimes the pages load so fast I don't even notice that they have already changed, especially if the page layout/format is the same. What I used to think as huge downloads, come down very quick. Netflix is watched more often that not. Even streaming 4K to several devices isn't an issue in this family any more. Smooth as silk! Well done Plusnet.

Only downside is I wish it was full fibre. DLM keeps knocking me down about 6mb/s and then slowly relents to put me back where I was before - I'm assuming on full fibre DLM doesn't get so involved(?). Surprisingly, the loss of that 6mb is slightly noticeable.

Why wouldn't you want high speeds? Unlimited too? Even more so if it results in paying about the same amount of money!

Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 17:35:27
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
This is one that's asked from time to time. My response would simply be this picture, and to invite you to think about how long it would take your good self on your service to acquire this one game via digital distribution.

https://s18.postimg.org/o6ipwjzix/Voom_Steam.png


Who would have thought, 10 years back, that one of the biggest edge cases in access speed was going to become ... downloading games.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 17:45:23
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
IMO, there are three real drivers for the government's current stance:

- Individual MPs are sick of getting it in the neck about broadband speed
- The government are embarrassed that the UK doesn't appear on the FTTH council graphs
- The most pro-competition MPs see this as a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get more physical infrastructure in opposition to Openreach

They no longer make arguments about any particular need for speed.
Standard User Chippy_Tea_
(committed) Sun 12-Nov-17 17:54:37
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
Why do I want faster speeds? Simple really. Stuff comes down the wires faster. I don't fear huge downloads any more.



I get that and if you get poor ADSL speeds then its a no brainier to move to fibre the point of my OP was how many are paying for fibre because they thought the would notice huge increase in speed, most of us do not upload/download huge files like Business users and gamers do so basically the big draw was the numbers advertised 4x - 8x faster than ADSL etc, its a bit like the saying 90% of all smart phone users only use 10% of the phones features yet will buy the next model out because they have to have the latest phone i wonder how many people are paying extra for something they really do not (at the moment) need.

I am currently on the Faster Fibre up to 38Mb package have noticed web pages load a bit faster and uploading pictures to hosting sites is a lot faster so for me i am getting value for money would i move to Faster Fibre up to 76Mb at the moment no as i do not need the extra speed.

.

Edited by Chippy_Tea_ (Sun 12-Nov-17 18:23:27)

Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 18:04:10
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Actually, this reminded me...

I recall a presentation from someone in BT whose job was to estimate bandwidth demands. His conclusion for 2025 broke down to 50Mbps for "most people, most days, some of the time", but there was a portion with bigger demands: 500Mbps for "some people, some days, some of the time".
Video: https://youtu.be/Aoybc0RxiT8
PDF: http://www.bcssouthwest.org.uk/presentations/DougWil...

The former figure was dominated by sustained demand from streaming applications. The latter figure was dominated by infrequent "elastic" demand - for things like game downloads, or iOS downloads.

I guess the "demand from millions" is going to come from the subgroup that decide they don't have the patience to wait for games to download...
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 18:09:50
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Chippy_Tea_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chippy_Tea_:
most of us do not upload/download huge files (Business users and games etc)


Actually, most business users don't download that much either. There are certainly some segments that rely heavily on bandwidth, but not many.

For a lot of businesses, the outcome is the same as you describe for yourself: decent superfast speed is enough
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 19:15:12
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
This is basically how capacity planning is done on access links. The 'standard' formula now is to size the link around average sustained usage + a single user's maximum burst + a little headroom.

The cohort on the links isn't large enough to smooth out the spikes via statistical contention so a fair amount of bandwidth has to be sat idle most of the time to allow users to hit their maximum speeds.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 12-Nov-17 19:16:11
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Who would have thought, 10 years back, that one of the biggest edge cases in access speed was going to become ... downloading games.


The prudish would prefer this to the older edge case: downloading pornography smile
Standard User sparkymark75
(newbie) Sun 12-Nov-17 19:36:45
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
This is one that's asked from time to time. My response would simply be this picture, and to invite you to think about how long it would take your good self on your service to acquire this one game via digital distribution.

https://s18.postimg.org/o6ipwjzix/Voom_Steam.png


Who would have thought, 10 years back, that one of the biggest edge cases in access speed was going to become ... downloading games.


Indeed! I've just got an Xbox One X. Some of the 4k texture packs for the games are 60Gb+ (on top of the game which is already about 40Gb)!!
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Nov-17 11:27:49
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: sparkymark75] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sparkymark75:
Indeed! I've just got an Xbox One X. Some of the 4k texture packs for the games are 60Gb+ (on top of the game which is already about 40Gb)!!


Yeah. Internet speed driven by "nice looking backgrounds".

If ever there was a case for a JIT delivery system...
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Nov-17 11:29:18
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
The 'standard' formula now is to size the link around average sustained usage + a single user's maximum burst + a little headroom.


That's the impression I got now, from the cable side. It obviously applies to PONs too.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Mon 13-Nov-17 11:40:18
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Re: Fibre speed.


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Actually, most business users don't download that much either. There are certainly some segments that rely heavily on bandwidth, but not many.

For a lot of businesses, the outcome is the same as you describe for yourself: decent superfast speed is enough


Postimg was playing up yesterday, so I couldn't attache these...

Here is a graphic from a recent-ish report from the BSG on SME broadband demands. It breaks down SMEs by trade and by number of employees..

In this image, I've highlighted the segment where demand will be 100Mbps+ in 2025:
https://postimg.org/image/7ye5vfkzf/

So, some industries, but only the ones with a larger number of employees.

In this image, I've highlighted the businesses with less than 20 employees - which are more than 98% of all SMEs:
https://postimg.org/image/oopjkveaj/

The only point of overlap is in the hotel business, or in software development.

The averages and medians are *much* lower. Lower than residential.
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