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Standard User andy88
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Feb-18 22:26:52
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Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[link to this post]
 
Dumb question of the moment

Why does it seem to matter that the Fibre ends at the Cabinet, and lots of ISP's sell you that, but if it comes all the way to the home and ends at equipment in the home, they don't.
Sky, TalkTalk etc don't want to know. (let's ignore York/Talk Talk project)

With so many homes being planned to be FTTP/H only
this means they will only have a very restricted choice of ISP (BT/plusnet or one of the specialists). Your standard Sky etc user is not going to be very impressed at not getting their bundle offer ?

What technically (or otherwise) is the difference that stops ISP's putting their connection to a Fibre in the exchange.... which ends up in a FTTC or FTTP end. Surely it is the same at the exchange - to not be so, seems unfortunate to say the least.

I have an interest, as Management Co I am in contact with, has finally got OpenReach to agree we really are not a Virgin Media area (despite their notes saying otherwise), and install FTTC for a sensible price. We have also got a price for FTTP (about 5-6 times higher). Then suddenly I see that few 'normal peoples' ISP's want to connect to FTTP.
I can't therefore support FTTP to everyone if most of the 300 or so residents will be disenfranchised.

Solution looks like go FTTC
and encourage the enthusiasts to go FTTPoD ?

Trying to get my head around it wink
Thanks.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-Feb-18 23:10:25
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: andy88] [link to this post]
 
Its all down to the fact that the FTTP rollout is too small compared to FTTC and the ISP will have to train their support staff to also support FTTP which all costs money.

As time goes and more FTTP is rolled out more and more ISP's will provide FTTP.

There is 7 ISP that provides FTTP for home users and 13 for the business side etc.
https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br...

But yeah it kind of sucks the lack of providers for FTTP, but I understand why.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 303.03 Mbps (down), 31.71 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User andy88
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Feb-18 23:52:30
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
But technically surely it is not different ?

and can be compared to the early
Openreach Modem + WAN based Router config of FTTC ?
Just that it is now a
PON Modem + WAN based Router config for FTTP ....

After the modem, it is not dfferent
Where does the training of the staff come in to it ?
And open reach presumably do the in house connection... (and already brought the fibre there 'waiting' anyway)

All you would need is a small core group to know about it at the support center, and as more and more homes are being built FTTP only (announcements last Nov about the next 30 builds of new homes all being FTTP only etc) why wouldn't Sky etc want to be in on it - they are talking up their internet only alternative to sat dishes again.

Am I going wrong in thinking it is the same at the exchange, and as you suggest, only a staff knowledge in case of customer issues ?


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Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Feb-18 00:21:20
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: andy88] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andy88:
But technically surely it is not different ?

and can be compared to the early
Openreach Modem + WAN based Router config of FTTC ?
Just that it is now a
PON Modem + WAN based Router config for FTTP ....

After the modem, it is not dfferent
Where does the training of the staff come in to it ?
And open reach presumably do the in house connection... (and already brought the fibre there 'waiting' anyway)

All you would need is a small core group to know about it at the support center, and as more and more homes are being built FTTP only (announcements last Nov about the next 30 builds of new homes all being FTTP only etc) why wouldn't Sky etc want to be in on it - they are talking up their internet only alternative to sat dishes again.

Am I going wrong in thinking it is the same at the exchange, and as you suggest, only a staff knowledge in case of customer issues ?

I totally agree with you, there is nothing stopping the ISP for training a small group of their staff to support FTTP, but they just don't want to do it.

I phoned sky up mid last year to test something out, I enquired about fibre and they responded with something like my area is not fibre ready.

I said yeah it is due to I already have fibre, I was asked what speeds I was getting, so I told them around 300Mbits.

This then got silly due to they told me I was mistaken about the speeds I was getting and what product I have and that all that I could get was ADSL 2+ with a maximum of 4.5Mbits.

I went on listening to them trying not to laugh at them explaining things to me for about 10 or so mins.

I came clean to them telling them that I had "FTTP" and I was shocked that they didn't even know what it was fully and went on about fibre cabinets etc, so I had to explain to them.

Now with FTTC they can just read off a fault lookup card, but FTTP would require a new different card due to the types of fault would be different for the two.

You say "technically surely it is not different" well yeah it is different if you think about it.
Its all down to how the data is getting to the modem, FTTP is via a fibre cable where as FTTC is via your copper phone line coming from the cabinets to your home.

Each can have different types of faults, that's probably why along with the types of hardware they have to rent / pay for at the exchange etc. is why not all ISP's support FTTP "yet".

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 303.03 Mbps (down), 31.71 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Feb-18 06:19:35
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: andy88] [link to this post]
 
Couldn’t agree more Andy, and have been bemoaning this same point for a while now.

I see Openreach announced yesterday that they are pushing ahead with an increased FTTP roll out.

How long can the ‘big players’ keep dodging this ? You’ve got to be in it to win it I say.

Standard User bluemoon87
(learned) Fri 02-Feb-18 07:54:25
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: andy88] [link to this post]
 
I completely agree, I find it extremely annoying when the companies like sky complain about BT not doing enough and yet they don’t don’t do anything to support fttp.
You mention that some people’s isps want to connect to fttp have BT already started rolling this out?
Standard User AndyHCZ
(experienced) Fri 02-Feb-18 08:56:23
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I've been saying it for years now.

In my street, there are two neighbours in my street that are on ADSL when the rest of us have FTTP. One elderly neighbour is with TalkTalk and currently trying to upload all her photos to Google's cloud with her ADSL connection's upstream speed of 0.3Mbps.

She came round the other day asking if there's anything that can be done to speed it up (it's been 2 weeks uploading so far and still not done!). I told her she should upgrade to fibre and she said that she's rung TalkTalk several times and they tell her that fibre is not available in the area.

I'm helping her to move over now to Plusnet's FTTP. We've had FTTP in our street since 2009 and there are still people locally complaining about speeds, but they are with the likes of TalkTalk and Sky.

I can understand if the footprint for FTTP was less than 100k premises, that the other big ISPs might not be so interested. But it doesn't make commercial sense now we've now passed over 500k premises, especially when the big ISPs are competing for thousands of net additions each quarter.

Edited by AndyHCZ (Fri 02-Feb-18 08:56:47)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 02-Feb-18 09:08:19
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
... I told her she should upgrade to fibre and she said that she's rung TalkTalk several times and they tell her that fibre is not available in the area.


Make sure you put a formal complaint into OFCOM about TTs mis-information.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User AndyHCZ
(experienced) Fri 02-Feb-18 09:21:06
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I raised this with OFCOM many years ago.

Sky are exactly the same. They even sent out flyers a number of years back to tell people that fibre services are now available in our area, but this was apparently a marketing mistake.
Standard User andy88
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Feb-18 09:27:31
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Re: Why the difference in ISP support FTTP and FTTC ?


[re: bluemoon87] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bluemoon87:
You mention that some people’s isps want to connect to fttp have BT already started rolling this out?

See PaulKirby's link to
the handful supporting FTTP to Homes, Business and
the even fewer currently supporting FTTPoD
(should you only have FTTC and want a higher connect .. and have deep pockets)

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
There is 7 ISP that provides FTTP for home users and 13 for the business side etc.
https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-br...

But yeah it kind of sucks the lack of providers for FTTP, but I understand why.

Paul

And examples of more Builders getting supporting FTTP,
".....all future Redrow homes can expect to benefit from ultrafast broadband via Fibre-to-the-Premises "

Thanks to Home Builders Federation having a deal " to provide this infrastructure free of charge to all new housing developments of 30+ properties."

Seems the rest of the UK is moving on ... just the big boys don't want to connect..
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