General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Sun 18-Feb-18 12:57:41
Print Post

Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[link to this post]
 
Some local businesses (farmers) have been working with Openreach recently to improve broadband to their premises. Details are a little sketchy but yesterday whilst out walking, I had chance to chat with one of the owners who was busy installing a trench ready for Openreach to pull a fibre & copper cabling through. I asked if the trench carried on all the way down the valley to the cabinet and he said, no - it was on overhead poles. He also mentioned that one of the farmers had contributed a lot to the cost which gives some idea of the financial complexity/ownership of all this.

These telegraph poles happen to go past a small business area with some adjacent private properties where I know they would kill for a better connection.

My question, which exposes my lack of knowledge of fibre cabling, is whether it is technically feasible to tap into a fibre cable on a telegraph pole to serve a local area?

If one can get FTTPoD to a single location in the business area, it would be entirely feasible to wire them all up to a single (say) 300Mbps connection and share costs.

Am I deluding myself and are there are good references on what one can or cannot do in terms of rural broadband self-help?

Thanks in advance, Rob.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 18-Feb-18 13:10:09
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Technically possible, but without knowing what has actually being actually deployed where in terms of aggrenation nodes, fibre splitters and manifolds then impossible to say with any certaintity.

If the fibre passing you is from a splitter to serve a couple of manifolds for the local businesses then splicing in will not help you but will break their service. i.e. it all hinges on the expected layout and location of the GPON network.

In terms of Self-Help if they are funding via FoD and you DON'T get access to native FTTP afterwards, then your course is to fund a FoD install yourself.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Sun 18-Feb-18 13:24:20
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that. Yes, I appreciate it's a bit of a stab in the dark but if you said "No, you can never tap into a fibre cable as it's point-to-point", I would have not bothered trying to follow-up. I'm going to try and speak to the prime mover on the project so see if one can find out more.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 18-Feb-18 13:30:00
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Openreach don't break into an existing fibre tube and the fibres held within, or if the newest method slice through the Kevlar cable and split out 1 of 44 individual fibres.

What they do, is run the fibres for the GPON infrastructure that would serve you, and it may be that your manifold might be served by a fibre splitter down the road that has been installed for the other businesses.

So tapping does not happen, its down to the planning and then running a fibre to you from existing infrastructure. So forget all notions of a person shinning up a pole and installing your fibre manifold with a simple cut into a cable.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User SMD
(newbie) Sun 18-Feb-18 14:58:14
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Do you have line of sight back to a farm building? you could pay the farmer to have another connection made live and fit a wireless link. another alternative is pay the farmer to run your own fibre back down his trench then dig another trench to your premesis.

Edited by SMD (Sun 18-Feb-18 15:00:43)

Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Mon 19-Feb-18 10:30:36
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: SMD] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that will be one of the scenarios we can look at. This is the area:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4d68rj1xoz45j0/Bakestoned...

So my thought was whether Openreach can supply a service off the pole near the industrial estate, network up that area using cabling & Point-to-point bridges etc and also point-to-point up the road towards the residential properties.

Towards the left/bottom end of the road, it's a steep sided valley so line of sight isn't given. Once higher up, it's moorland.

Except I've learnt on my other thread that BT don't offer a service built on FTTPoD so have to approach one of the other providers who only services businesses (which is fine).

If somebody said "Rob, here's a fibre termination point, can you connect us all up to the network", I'd be off like a shot but the prospect of dealing with Openreach and the legal technicalities of shared internet services means I might just keep quiet wink

Edited by robnicholson (Mon 19-Feb-18 10:32:08)

Standard User witchunt
(committed) Mon 19-Feb-18 11:07:12
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
I reckon those residential properties will be getting FTTP anyway
Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Mon 19-Feb-18 11:59:20
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
That would be even better! How do you go about initiating an honest discussion with Openreach? Please don't laugh...
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Mon 19-Feb-18 12:20:10
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Suspect that discussion has already taken place
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Feb-18 12:23:28
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robnicholson:
That would be even better! How do you go about initiating an honest discussion with Openreach? Please don't laugh...
From what witchunt has said, wrt the residential properties I think you just need to wait and see wink.

The small business area may or may not get lucky at the same time.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 75808/13984Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 19-Feb-18 12:23:53)

Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Mon 19-Feb-18 12:42:23
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Not with the residents it hasn't smile Only know that because a friend lives in one of the farms and he's currently talking about microwave link to Manchester - he has line of sight to most of Manchester...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Feb-18 13:17:48
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Has any one talked to the BDUK project covering the area?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AL66
(regular) Mon 19-Feb-18 14:44:53
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Is your postcode SK10 5RX or SK10 5RU?

For most addresses in SK10 5RX the Openreach checker shows FTTC availability (from PCP13, speeds poor due to distance from cab), for SK10 5RU (even further from PCP13) most addresses show no FTTC available but does say this:

‘The cabinet that serves your premises is live, but your speeds aren't as fast as we'd like them to be. Your area has been reviewed and there is a plan to do further work to increase speeds via FTTP technology.

We follow a different design and build process for FTTP so you won't see updates at each stage. As soon as we have built the network and made services available, you will see an 'Accepting Orders' message.‘

Based on that I would think all properties fed from PCP13 with either no FTTC availability or sub 25/30Mbps FTTC are likely to get native FTTP offered at some point in the near future.
Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Tue 20-Feb-18 12:53:54
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
>So tapping does not happen, its down to the planning and then running a fibre to you from existing infrastructure. So forget all notions of a person shinning up a pole and installing your fibre manifold with a simple cut into a cable.

Aww that's a shame - not like the old days when you could tap into a phone connection wink

I'm hoping that there was a bit of planning done by Openreach in this installation as it would be missing a trick not the split/whatever the fibre halfway to serve an existing industrial estate.
Standard User AL66
(regular) Tue 20-Feb-18 14:24:26
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
As was said yesterday it looks likely the area will get native FTTP soon due to poor/not available FTTC due to the distance back to Bollington PCP13.

If I were you I’d contact Connecting Cheshire to see if they can give an indication of timescale.

Not sure how this fits in with your local farmers who have either ordered FTTP on demand, gone down the community fibre partnership route or possibly are just aware of what is happening via Connecting Cheshire and might be doing their own digging to get the fibre from the road across their own land.

Some pictures of any new infrastructure attached to the poles might help identify how far the physical infrastructure work has got.
Standard User robnicholson
(newbie) Tue 20-Feb-18 14:55:56
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for this - I'm planning to meet with my friend later this week so we'll have a mooch around. Connecting Cheshire is a good call - thx. I don't normally get involved in the sharp end of all this - more of office equipment installer and IT support role but do like a challenge.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 21-Feb-18 13:43:42
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robnicholson:
Aww that's a shame - not like the old days when you could tap into a phone connection wink


I think you have a rose-tinted view of the past, though I note the wink

The majority of the distance between a property and the exchange, perhaps 90% on average, is covered by E-side cables. These are the ones that are 400-1000 pairs, and pressurised to prevent water ingress. BT would never tap into one of these at a random location ... that is what the green PCP cabinets are designed for.

Fibre is no different. The main fibre spines can be made of cables with 288 fibres within, supporting up to 9,000 premises, and are very equivalent to E-side cables. BT wouldn't randomly tap into these cables to access a single fibre. Instead, they strategically locate a node with lots of splice trays for that purpose - the aggregation node.

E-side copper, and fibre spines, are both too valuable, too important, to randomly tap into.
Standard User robnicholson
(regular) Thu 22-Mar-18 13:33:05
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
>If I were you I’d contact Connecting Cheshire to see if they can give an indication of timescale.

Missed this first time around - I'll certainly give them a call.
Standard User robnicholson
(regular) Tue 27-Mar-18 10:14:57
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Following on from this thread, I had a wander around the area in question with my camera. Can anyone tell me what I'm looking at here? This is one of the poles halfway up the valley outside the small industrial estate:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1tznf43yhky3f0/Pole%20by%...

Is this something that looks like it might be extended in future?

Fibre pops up out of the ground about 300m further down the road:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nw2zbpt44hobkbd/Fibre%20st...

The installation is still going on - this is under a pole between there fibre comes out the ground and the pole posted above:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/stgh2r4gud0b00w/Fibre%20ca...
Standard User robnicholson
(regular) Tue 27-Mar-18 10:21:04
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
I've got a new small client along Moorside who are currently getting 2-3Mbps down and 0.1Mbps up on ADSL - they were told VDSL would be no better/maybe worse.

Unfortunately, the fibre doesn't currently go along the poles to their premises - so close yet so far! Hence my reason for asking whether that pole had an option for expansion.

So we're going to install a 4GEE router for £100 and sign up to a 100GB monthly PAYG service. They are reluctant to sign up for 18 months contract if fibre may become an option.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 27-Mar-18 11:02:21
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Just looks like joints/splices on a piece of fibre

Splitters are hidden in ground in a green metal box on the poles in overhead deployment areas

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Tue 27-Mar-18 19:50:45
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
First two photos are just copper joints and cables I’m afraid.

Last one is obviously fibre. The pole marked with the yellow label must have fibre on it somewhere but I can’t see it in your photos.

Icaras
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 27-Mar-18 20:10:37
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
but I can’t see it in your photos

Fibre is very thin see Icaras, you’ll find that out on the training winkgrin

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 27-Mar-18 20:51:33
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
My Fruit & Fibre has big pieces.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 71456/14100Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 27-Mar-18 21:13:42
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I think you’ll find that would be raisin the light loss reading too much.

Standard User robnicholson
(regular) Tue 27-Mar-18 21:39:31
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Fibre is very thin see Icaras, you’ll find that out on the training


All of the poles except the one where I thought it came out of the ground have the yellow plates saying "Caution Fibre Overhead". One suspects that they haven't finished the installation yet.

My friend up there says there is a "box thing" a bit further up the road. Need to re-visit and maybe take some photos in better light smile
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Wed 28-Mar-18 08:34:28
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
but I can’t see it in your photos

Fibre is very thin see Icaras, you’ll find that out on the training winkgrin


Haha, indeed. I have worked with it before in the company actually, many years ago.

On one of the photos I think I can see something related to fibre at the top of the pole but it’s hard to make out.

Icaras
Standard User jabuzzard
(regular) Mon 09-Apr-18 14:36:00
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Openreach don't break into an existing fibre tube and the fibres held within, or if the newest method slice through the Kevlar cable and split out 1 of 44 individual fibres.


Note that they can and do drag cables up from the bottom of the ocean and splice into one of the dark fibres while the rest are live, then put the whole lot back down at the bottom of the ocean, while they also lay a branch to somewhere else. I watched some program on Quest I think randomly on a weekend where they did that last year. So it is perfectly possible for Openreach to do that if they want to as a fibre on a telegraph pole is a whole lot easier to work with than one on the bottom of the ocean.
Standard User Gadget
(committed) Tue 10-Apr-18 00:12:40
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
The cost of losing the cable makes the expense of hauling it up and fixing it viable - of course if money were no object the same could be done for you, but would you be prepared to pay?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Apr-18 06:06:26
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: Gadget] [link to this post]
 
Good point. A trawl through this thread proves you right.

Standard User robnicholson
(regular) Sun 15-Apr-18 12:17:14
Print Post

Re: Tapping into fibre on a telegraph pole


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
This post started off as a little bit of interest on my part around the fibre installation on Bakestonedale SK10 5RZ. Somebody suggested contacting "Connecting Cheshire" which I did and this response came back:

Thank you for your enquiry, since publishing our proposed coverage for Phases 2 and 3 in January 2017; BT Openreach have now regrettably informed us that as part of their initial deployment work, significant unforeseen challenges have arisen and the proposed upgrade to this area served by the Bollington Exchange has now breached our cost-cap criteria.

In such cases we are bound by government value for money guidelines to de-scope such areas from our plans. This is unfortunately a common challenge in rural areas, with complex fibre routes remote from telephone exchanges with low numbers of premises to spread the cost over. However we will place this structure ‘under review’ so that subject to further funding, or if alternative lower cost deployment options emerge, we may be able to re-introduce it into our plans.

We appreciate this is highly disappointing for you and very frustrating. We have tried our best to keep these cost caps to an absolute minimum, but by informing you now you may wish to consider exploring other options to improve your speed. These include the government’s Better Broadband Scheme for premises currently receiving 2Mbps or under, whereby a subsidy towards and alternative satellite or wireless service is available, or to consider a community funded scheme to delivery a bespoke solution to your locality. BT offer a Community Fibre Partnerships Scheme, or other rural broadband providers are active in offering this option also, such as Vispa and ITS – both of whom are listed as approved suppliers under the Better Broadband scheme.


Still rather confusing as we still don't know what work they were planning but have now canceled due to cost.

But at least my client can stop waiting and push ahead with a 4G solution.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to