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Standard User robnicholson
(learned) Thu 01-Mar-18 12:33:39
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BTnet - getting the runaround?


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I've mentioned before that my client is currently looking at options for replacing their VDSL2 20Mbps/1Mbps link with something faster.

When BT sales person came to visit, they have only offered BTnet which is their leased line service. Putting aside installation cost for now, the price was originally came in around £800/month for a 30Mbps but soon dropped for ~£550/month.

An installation survey will hopefully be carried out soon.

However, my initial concern over this is the 30Mbps speed, albeit both ways. Sure, it's uncontended and good service levels but those aren't exactly top of my customers requirement. Speed is - and that's just not enough of an uplift, contended or not.

When I look into BTnet pricing, I hit this page:

https://business.bt.com/products/broadband/bt-leased...

Two things hit me - firstly, the BTnet Express service looks fine if it was 30Mbps but is a fraction of the price. Secondly, the 100Mbps price is still £100 less than they have been quoted and that is for 100Mbps.

I asked my client to question this with BT sales and they got this back:

----cut here----
The BT-Net Express is a different product and unfortunately after doing an online survey this is not available for your location, The price you have had is because you are over 5km for the BT POP Exchange, if you were local access (Within a mile of the exchange) the price would be cheaper, unfortunately until the survey has been passed we do not know all the information so I cannot look into the pricing as it may come back even further, meaning a higher cost.
If we can get the survey done, which I believe has been confirmed we can look at this time at the pricing.
----cut here----

What has distance from the exchange got to do monthly pricing? Installation is being priced/paid for separately? BT have said they'd absorb £2,800 of install costs but what it sounds like here is that they are not absorbing it but spreading it through the overall cost. So fibbing...

Also, does a leased line have to go all the way back to the Exchange and not the nearest FTTC? I can see this being the case (for contention reasons?) but thought I'd ask.

FTTPoD is available to the premises here. Does that also have to go direct to the Exchange or can it go to a FTTC cabinet or fibre aggregate I've seen mentioned. The nearest FTTC cabinet is 1.4km away.

Sorry for the still-newbie questions but I don't like it when something doesn't stack up. One is tempted to tell BT to go away and we'll approach one of the three FTTPoD providers.

Edited by robnicholson (Thu 01-Mar-18 12:34:28)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-18 12:48:09
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Leased line is back to the exchange, FTTPoD back to the aggregation node.

Standard User robnicholson
(learned) Thu 01-Mar-18 12:56:17
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the rapid answer - at least that bit of the BT sales answer was correct. And yes, they are a long way from the Mobberley Exchange.

I suspect BT are pushing BTnet because they can't offer FTTPoD.

Hard work this isn't it. So we need to get OpenReach to do a separate survey (though one of the FTTPoD suppliers) to get costs to the aggregation node which I'm going to guess is a lot closer.

It'll come down to the extra cost between the longer Exchange line with £2,800 discount from BT versus shorter non-discounted FTTPoD line.

Anyone care to give some ballpark monthly costs from FTTPoD suppliers - a 100Mbps/30Mbps would be fine?


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Standard User AL66
(regular) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:03:22
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Is the BTnet circuit they’re proposing fibre based or EFM (copper)?

If fibre, that will be a dedicated run all the way back to the exchange (might not even be the local exchange). Likely to come with excess construction charges well into five figures if this is for the site you’ve previously mentioned.

If EFM, that uses up to eight copper pairs depending on distance, at your distance likely to need all eight and probably won’t manage 30Mps either. You might well find there aren’t eight available pairs to use so you’re back to high ECC charges. Also, from personal experience, avoid EFM if at all possible, the reliability can be very poor - the local OR engineers will hate you as they’ll be constantly trying to fix it!

As previously discussed, it looked like the area was going to get native FTTP anyway - have you made enquiries to confirm that and get a timescale?
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:11:40
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Some BT lease line products have a per meter charge for both install and rental so presumably this is one of those.

BT can't quote for FTTPoD so if you ask them in to quote they can only quote the things they sell - like most business they aren't going to say "by the way the guy over there can provide you an alternative to ours".

FTTPoD has just been through a price change and no-one yet as far as we have seen on here has up to date quotes. Until the suppliers get their new pricing sorted then it is guesswork but at present it is looking like at could be very high up front install costs with more reasonably monthly rental.
Standard User robnicholson
(learned) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:21:19
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
>Is the BTnet circuit they’re proposing fibre based or EFM (copper)?

Honestly don't know because BT sales are useless at letting you know exactly what they are proposing. I'm going to assume fibre as they are talking about distance from the Exchange.

>As previously discussed, it looked like the area was going to get native FTTP anyway - have you made enquiries to confirm that and get a timescale?

See above wink It's like pulling teeth. Considering the location, I'd be very surprised about native FTTP. How did you gleam that bit of information and who does one speak to - OpenReach or ISP?
Standard User robnicholson
(learned) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:25:07
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
>like most business they aren't going to say "by the way the guy over there can provide you an alternative to ours".

I know - I've dealt with enough people in the comms business over the years smile

>Until the suppliers get their new pricing sorted then it is guesswork but at present it is looking like at could be very high up front install costs with more reasonably monthly rental.

I was aware of this price change and I've suggested my client doesn't make any decisions until this new pricing is available. Which will hopefully be soon. They are aware of the potentially high install costs. But they are a business so can do the TCO over say three years. If we can get the figures in the first place.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:30:29
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Get quotes from others who can provide leased line services.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AL66
(regular) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:40:55
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: robnicholson] [link to this post]
 
Openreach Checker

Look at the results for number 8, the BT checkers for this premises don’t think any FTTC service is currently possible whereas it does for the other nearby premesis, hence it showing native FTTP being planned. As all the premesis show sub 24Mbps FTTC then they should all get native FTTP offered at the same time no 8 gets it. You need to contact Connecting Cheshire for them to hopefully confirm this is the case and what the timescale is. Could also be worth contacting the local MP to bang heads together if needed!
Standard User robnicholson
(learned) Thu 01-Mar-18 13:58:41
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Re: BTnet - getting the runaround?


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
We get lots of different readings wink When OpenReach came out to technically just install a 2nd copper line for VDSL2, my client had to tell them where the connections were.

The phone number of the recent VDSL2 install is 01565872271

What postcode/number were you using?

But yes, they all get <24Mbps. Will investigate further.
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