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Standard User sparkymark75
(learned) Thu 17-May-18 19:34:28
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Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


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So I'm having issues with my Google wifi restarting itself sporadically. I don't know what the issue is and judging by Google support, neither do they. I'm humouring their suggestions at present. Their latest one is that I am double NAT'd.

They are claiming the OR ONT is acting as a router as they can see that the default gateway for my Google wifi (which is connected directly to the ONT) is 172.16.19.144

Beside the fact I'm not sure how a double NAT situation would cause a router to fall over, is there anything with FTTP that would cause a double NAT? I assumed that the ONT was, in laymans terms, acting like a modem and did no routing.

Previously Google support have claimed there was some sort of authentication issue. But I'm not sure what that was exactly as they haven't mentioned it again. This setup had been stable since December last year and only started to act up in the last month or so. The main Google wifi unit just reboots itself meaning I lose all connectivity.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-May-18 20:02:47
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: sparkymark75] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sparkymark75:
So I'm having issues with my Google wifi restarting itself sporadically. I don't know what the issue is and judging by Google support, neither do they. I'm humouring their suggestions at present. Their latest one is that I am double NAT'd.

They are claiming the OR ONT is acting as a router as they can see that the default gateway for my Google wifi (which is connected directly to the ONT) is 172.16.19.144

Beside the fact I'm not sure how a double NAT situation would cause a router to fall over, is there anything with FTTP that would cause a double NAT? I assumed that the ONT was, in laymans terms, acting like a modem and did no routing.

Previously Google support have claimed there was some sort of authentication issue. But I'm not sure what that was exactly as they haven't mentioned it again. This setup had been stable since December last year and only started to act up in the last month or so. The main Google wifi unit just reboots itself meaning I lose all connectivity.

ONT = Optical Network Terminator and as far as I am aware its just a Modem which is why you need to connect a Router or a Device via PPPoE.

Paul

BTBroadband - Ultrafast 2 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-May-18 20:36:54
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Id agree with you on that Paul.

To the OP....

Are you able to substitute the Google wifi unit with a different router (maybe the original from when installed) and see if that stays up ? My guess is some software update to the Google hobby has sent it Pete Tong.


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Standard User sparkymark75
(learned) Thu 17-May-18 21:51:14
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
The Google wifi unit hasn't been updated for weeks. My next thing to try (when I can get downtime) is to swap both the wifi units around so the main unit is the secondary and vice versa.
Standard User bowdon
(committed) Thu 17-May-18 22:07:29
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: sparkymark75] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sparkymark75:
The Google wifi unit hasn't been updated for weeks. My next thing to try (when I can get downtime) is to swap both the wifi units around so the main unit is the secondary and vice versa.


I'm sure you've probably done this, but on looking up these wifi units it seems they have their own dhcp allocating ip addresses. You've mentioned you have 2 of these. Is it possible to disable the dhcp on one of the devices?

Demon => Freeserve => Pipex => Be => Sky => BT Infinity 2
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 18-May-18 00:13:29
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: sparkymark75] [link to this post]
 
If you fail to authenticate to your ISP you can end up with an IP address in that range from BT Wholesale as a fallback. However such a fault would be expected to impact more than just you, and would likely be permanent.

You also would have no Internet access during those periods when you fall to authenticate and end up with such an address.

Either way the router shouldn't be rebooting like that. If it fails to authenticate its PPP session it should try later, not reload, and you should only need to authenticate at session establishment so it's dropping your PPP session in order to get like that.

Seems likely to me the reboot or at least a loss of connecting is coming before that 172 address is being seen, so ball back in their court. The ISP will be able to advise if they see authentication failures on their side.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Fri 18-May-18 01:56:19
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: sparkymark75] [link to this post]
 
I'm confused as to how your WiFi ever works if it is directly connected to the ONT, and not to a router.

You would think that the ONT is expecting to have a router connect to its port, talking PPPoE. Those ethernet ports aren't meant to be either switched or routed ports.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 18-May-18 03:50:38
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
You would think that the ONT is expecting to have a router connect to its port, talking PPPoE.


Not all ISPs require PPPoE authentication over Openreach flavoured FTTP at the customer's end, BT Retail is the obvious one which springs to mind. So in such a case just plugging in any access point (or router in access point mode) or even any PC into the ONT's LAN port will give you a live internet connection.

OP, whatever router/access point you've got plugged into the ONT, replace it with another one or even a laptop/PC, using your PPPoE credentials if applicable - this will rule out any issues with the ONT. But you're right, the ONT is just a dumb "modem", its almost certain the issue is with your Google hardware. I suspect Google support have no idea what an ONT is.

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Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 18-May-18 09:12:24
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
I'm confused as to how your WiFi ever works if it is directly connected to the ONT, and not to a router.

You would think that the ONT is expecting to have a router connect to its port, talking PPPoE. Those ethernet ports aren't meant to be either switched or routed ports.


In common with other home mesh products the Google WiFi base station is a router and can talk PPP.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 18-May-18 09:21:49
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Re: Does the OpenReach ONT do any routing?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Not all ISPs require PPPoE authentication over Openreach flavoured FTTP at the customer's end, BT Retail is the obvious one which springs to mind. So in such a case just plugging in any access point (or router in access point mode) or even any PC into the ONT's LAN port will give you a live internet connection.


All the ones using BT Wholesale do as far as I know, else how is the MSE/BRAS to know which ISP the customer is trying to connect to? It doesn't care about username and password on BTR but still uses the domain for pre-auth and to know which service provider to send the session to for full authentication.

I've not seen any BTW broadband connection that doesn't need PPP and am not aware of anything in the BTW service specifications that indicate customers will be sent to BTR by default if they don't enter any credentials.

I welcome correction if you can point me to documents detailing the service specification, thank you!
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