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Standard User griff_90
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Nov-18 13:00:12
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FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Estimated Build Cost: Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges


Number of premises passed for FTTP:


That's really helpful and no I haven't accidentally misquoted. There just a blank space after number of premises passed.

Anyone else received a 'Desktop quote' like this?

IDNET Home Fibre Plus BT Infinity
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 02-Nov-18 14:05:54
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
My update today is below. I am reading this as we "have a delay in getting the price to you".

Openreach have advised that the Final costings have been received, but unfortunately they have also reported a system issue that is preventing costs uploading to FLOW, planners has raised a case with Openreach’s systems team to have this fixed.


Mike
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 02-Nov-18 14:20:59
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
That's unlucky! Hopefully it won't take long to resolve that specific problem.


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Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 02-Nov-18 14:47:00
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by griff_90:
Estimated Build Cost: Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges


Number of premises passed for FTTP:


That's really helpful and no I haven't accidentally misquoted. There just a blank space after number of premises passed.

Anyone else received a 'Desktop quote' like this?


Yes: norniron91, sherburn. Also nemeth782 initially got a quote like that, but then they changed their mind and offered a quote of £17,700.

Of those, only norniron91 went ahead with a survey, and the final quote was £21,540.
Standard User NornIron91
(learned) Fri 02-Nov-18 16:44:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
And to confirm that is £21540 + VAT

I've now sent away for a desktop quote for 14 properties for a CFP.
Administrator seb
(founder) Sat 03-Nov-18 18:58:59
Print Post

Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
Closed the original thread. This was one of the latest segments so will leave this open.

seb

Sebastien Lahtinen
Co-Founder,
thinkbroadband.com
seb@thinkbroadband.com

personal blog - blog.seb.me.uk
twitter - @sebtweet
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 04-Nov-18 08:10:52
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Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: seb] [link to this post]
 
When ever you do this would it not be a good idea to add a link back to the original thread?

Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Sun 04-Nov-18 10:25:38
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Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
There's now 3 threads to search across....

How much is XenForo to install?

Content wise this place is good, but it feels like it was built at the time of the ark.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 04-Nov-18 10:26:07)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 04-Nov-18 11:14:51
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Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
It works well for me. The combination of Flat and Threaded modes is far better than the purely Flat mode that all the modern ones seem to have.

Maybe you don't have your display and other options set up very well. I recommend:

- Style sheet = thinkbroadband;
- Normal index;
- Active in the last week (or longer depending on how often you visit);
- Descending date (but maybe you are used to Ascending on other forums);
- Flat mode;
- Collapsed threads;
- Parent posts per page = 99;
- Posts per page in Flat mode = 99;
- Preview post screen = On;
- Text area columns = 140 (maybe a few more);
- Text area lines = 25;
- Show sigs = Yes;
- Show user status - Yes.

Also to make it run more smoothly put the forums you want to check regularly in "My Home >> Favourite Forums" and make that your entry page, not the Main Index.

I hope that helps.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 71908/13506Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Administrator seb
(founder) Sun 04-Nov-18 19:06:35
Print Post

Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
When ever you do this would it not be a good idea to add a link back to the original thread?


A more helpful suggestion would have been to do it yourself smile

Sebastien Lahtinen
Co-Founder,
thinkbroadband.com
seb@thinkbroadband.com

personal blog - blog.seb.me.uk
twitter - @sebtweet
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 04-Nov-18 21:45:54
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Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: seb] [link to this post]
 
It's not me that decides when to close a thread because its too big is it???? It's you, so it makes perfect sense for you to do it to any thread you close because its got too big wink And the reason these threads have got big is because they are popular, so a continuation thread with links back to the previous one for YOUR community would be helpful smile

Administrator seb
(founder) Sun 04-Nov-18 21:58:51
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Re: Closed original thread; this segment to carry on..


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by R0NSKI:
It's not me that decides when to close a thread because its too big is it???? It's you, so it makes perfect sense for you to do it to any thread you close because its got too big wink And the reason these threads have got big is because they are popular, so a continuation thread with links back to the previous one for YOUR community would be helpful smile


I linked from the original into this continuation one.. I didn't do the reverse.. I should have done.
This is a community forum so anyone can be useful and provide that link. I'm working right not (i.e. not on TBB)

Sebastien Lahtinen
Co-Founder,
thinkbroadband.com
seb@thinkbroadband.com

personal blog - blog.seb.me.uk
twitter - @sebtweet
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Mon 05-Nov-18 05:29:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
Here's the first part:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4595298-ftt...

And an earlier topic:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4586020-ftt...
Standard User fredfox
(experienced) Mon 05-Nov-18 19:29:17
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
Thank you.

Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Now -> Zen and BT

Fibre is here ! FTTP smile
Standard User bcsalt
(newbie) Tue 06-Nov-18 17:21:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Another desktop & final quote

Desktop £31000 + VAT

Proceeded with survey as a property near to us is in the process of getting fttp, hoped this might provide a cheap route... (old manor house, we are in one of their gate/lodge houses. Unfortunately turns out we're fed from different exchanges)

final quote dropped to £11945 + VAT

A huge drop, unfortunately still just too high for me to justify, here ends the dream!
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 06-Nov-18 18:29:54
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: bcsalt] [link to this post]
 
The estimated build charge was £12,300.00 + VAT. The confirmed build charge is £3,237.00 + VAT. This includes the reduction for the survey and a deduction of £900.00 for premises passed.


Going ahead!

Mike
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 06-Nov-18 22:49:50
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Nice one!

I think this is a good time to summarise the 21 FTTPoD results which have been kindly shared by forum members.

For me, the most interesting aspect is the percentage of the original desktop quote people eventually end up paying.

* All final quotes except one were at 73% of the desktop quote or lower
* Three quarters of people got a final quote which was 58% of desktop quote or lower
* A quarter of people got a final quote which was 41% or lower

Those percentages also include the £250 survey fee.

The desktop quote process is clearly erring considerably on the side of caution. I'd say it's worth paying for the survey if you would be happy to pay 60-70% of the desktop price - and there is a good chance you may end up paying less than that.

The sample only includes those people who decided to go forward for the paid survey - some decided it wasn't worth paying to find out - and of course those who decided to share their results with the forum. However it still covers quite a wide range: the median desktop quote from this group was £12,950. Interestingly, the median final quote was just £4,000 (that's not including the £250 survey charge or VAT)

The highest final quote was £21,540, and this was for a property which was so difficult that no desktop quote could be provided at all.

The lowest final quote was "free", because it turned out the area was already in process of FTTP roll-out; the lowest real FTTPoD final quote was £2,151.73.
Standard User radii
(learned) Fri 09-Nov-18 10:16:00
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Hi all,
You can add this information to the mix:
B Market
Band D for FTTPOD
Under old system install quote was £3500+vat

New system desktop quote: £16,200+vat
Confirmed build charge: £6970+vat (including reduction for survey and premises passed)

Seems like I was better off under old system.
Is the ONT being installed now just 1 port or could it be 2 or 4?
If I went ahead and wanted BT Ultra fast 4 connection as well (to keep business/ residential separate) would that be possible with 1 ONT port or would there be another installation charge or is it not possible?
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 09-Nov-18 10:55:13
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by radii:
Under old system install quote was £3500+vat

New system desktop quote: £16,200+vat
Confirmed build charge: £6970+vat (including reduction for survey and premises passed)

Seems like I was better off under old system.


For you it's roughly the same overall, because the old system had a much higher three-year loading on the monthly rental.

Three year cost under old system: 3500 + 36*165 = £9,440

Three year cost under new system: 250 + 6970 + 12*100 + 24*62.5 = £9,920

This drops to £9,500 if you are happy to reduce speed from 330/30 to 150/30 (at a monthly rental of £45) for years 2 and 3.

Also, if you can apply for the business Gigabit voucher then you're £3,000 better off.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 09-Nov-18 11:05:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I would like to know the answer about the ONTs as well, as I'm in the same situation as you.

If they don't install multi-port ONTs any more then I'm going to ask them to pull two fibres from the DP.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Nov-18 11:05:42
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
Current FTTPoD/FTTP installations all come with the newer single LAN port ONTs. I guess you could ask the engineer on the day if he has a spare 4 port ONT in the van but I imagine chances are slim. If you wanted an additional fttp service on a single port ONT then i guess you would need a new fibre run & ONT.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 09-Nov-18 11:06:30)

Standard User radii
(learned) Fri 09-Nov-18 11:15:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
If they don't install multi-port ONTs any more then I'm going to ask them to pull two fibres from the DP.


I'm going ahead, though I'm being told it may be from 3 month to 1 year for installation to be completed. I clearly would prefer 4port ONT, if I request them to pull two fibres to the property, could they say no as only provisioned for one?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Nov-18 11:18:40
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
I would like to know the answer about the ONTs as well, as I'm in the same situation as you.

If they don't install multi-port ONTs any more then I'm going to ask them to pull two fibres from the DP.


On my non-connectorised install they brought a total of 4 fibre strands to the external CSP, ie one in use and three spares nicely coiled up in the csp trays. However I’m not sure if they can do the same on connectorised installs, I think that’s one for Zarjaz to answer smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:23:52
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Yes BF, the single port ONT is the weapon of choice now.

Provisioning of two services to a four port is, in my experience, extremely rare. The systems are just not geared up to do it.

If you have a connectorised install, then that’s a single fibre only, as it goes to one specified port on the CBT.

The other posters suggesting they would ask for two fibres to be pulled in are, I suspect, going to get a polite no.

Whether the Openreach bod has a four port in their van ... luck of the draw really.
The ‘fresh meat’ being skilled up at present are shown and kitted out for connectorised and nothing else, no splicer, nuttin’. Punters want it cheap, there’s an easy cost saving, less training, £2500 an engineer saved for not carrying one.

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:25:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Don't forget that once you have the FTTPoD, a second supply should be the standard FTTP price.

Edit: As long as your neighbours haven't snaffled all the spare ports on the DP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 71908/13506Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Nov-18 12:28:11)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:34:26
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Zarjaz.

Other than having a few spare fibre strands, is there any advantage of having blown/spliced fibre instead of a connectorised fibre install? Btw love your description of new recruits as "fresh meat" lol

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Fri 09-Nov-18 12:37:26)

Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:36:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
radii

If you go ahead it would be best to state that you want 2 connections ( ie order 2 on a linked order) this should get you a 4 port ONT. There is meant to be a process to link orders but I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:38:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Candlerb

See my reply to radii. link the two orders and place them at the same time.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-Nov-18 12:55:58
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
Candlerb

See my reply to radii. link the two orders and place them at the same time.

But I would have thought you could only place an order for an additional FTTP line (at native FTTP prices) once the Bt/Openreach checker starts showing ‘WBC FTTP’ which only happens a week or two before FTTPoD goes live.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Nov-18 13:02:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm .....

I guess technically no. But I personally think it’s better.

For years I have had to hunt HR faults caused by failing crimps, seems to me that these connectorised blocks are going to be the ‘failing crimps’ of the future.

‘Dumbing down’ the network and those who maintain and operate it is only ever going to end sadly I reckon.

I could moan for ages (and usually do) but no, not a fan.

Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 09-Nov-18 17:26:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
See my reply to radii. link the two orders and place them at the same time.


I don't see how that's possible: I'd need to migrate my home service to FTTP (on PlusNet not Cerberus), but I won't be able to order this until the checker says FTTP available.

So the question is: if I simply let the FTTPoD install complete, and then place a second order for FTTP at the property, what's going to happen?

I am guessing that they'd pull a second fibre at that point and install second ONT. Or they could swap me to a multi-port ONT.

Otherwise they could say it's impossible to take a second service at the property - in which case I'll have to leave my home broadband on copper.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sat 10-Nov-18 11:50:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thinking about this further, you may not need another fibre run to the DP for additional circuits. Reason being that on my 4 port ONT, there is only 1 port for the fibre to go into so this suggests the same fibre strand would be used for additional FTTP lines if I were to order another line. So if this is correct, then i see no reason why the same cannot apply to a connectorised install - obviously you would need a 4 port ONT fitted from the outset or swapped over later on with your single port ONT.

If you are 100% sure that you will ordering an additional FTTP line later on, then you may want to buy a brand new 4 port ONT (such as this) in advance as there's no guarantee the Openreach Engineer will have a spare one on the day. Obviously Openreach will still need to activate the ONT, but if its genuine Openreach stock & never been registered by Openreach previously then it shouldn't be an issue. Also having a 4 port ONT installed from the beginning means you are unlikely to need further Engineer visits fo activate additional lines as this can be done remotely by Openreach.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sat 10-Nov-18 11:53:04)

Standard User fredfox
(experienced) Sat 10-Nov-18 12:23:55
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Single fibre into my 4 port ONT and got BT on port 1, Zen on port 2.

Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Now -> Zen and BT

Fibre is here ! FTTP smile
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Nov-18 14:21:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Just a small correction ... as all else is, in theory, correct.

On the activation front, it only matters if that ONT’s serial number has been previously registered to the same head end fibre








p.s. I do hope that’s not someone from Openreach being really dumb and flogging that shizzle on the bay of fleas. Not worth yer pension is it.

Edited by Zarjaz (Sat 10-Nov-18 14:25:33)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Nov-18 14:22:16
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: fredfox] [link to this post]
 
The interesting question, is how did you order these two ?

Standard User fredfox
(experienced) Sat 10-Nov-18 19:08:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thread is here ---- My 2nd connection

And a 2nd thread - 2nd thread

And pict of my ONT (from above thread) ONT 2 out of 4

TLDR; Called Zen, told them I had 4 port ONT with 1 BT connection, they sorted the rest.

Zarjaz - you posted in both those threads smile

Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Now -> Zen and BT

Fibre is here ! FTTP smile

Edited by fredfox (Sat 10-Nov-18 19:24:11)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Nov-18 21:59:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: fredfox] [link to this post]
 
Yep, I do recall, but couldn’t remember your moniker.

Still a very rare beast though.

Standard User Blmcg
(learned) Sun 11-Nov-18 04:12:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The interesting question, is how did you order these two ?


This is actually very easy in the front-end and backend systems, you have to provide a port number in any sucessivve provide (existing ont) order.
In fact this is common where there is a service overlap, i.e. where EU has changed CP, or homemover scenarios; as cp-cp migration on the same port functionality wasn't added until very recently, so other ports tended to end up being used to provide service.
Only caveat is that only port 1 of the ONT supports multicast delivery, mainly only used for the TV services via BT Consumer, so we don't need to worry.

Most of this goes away with the 1+1 being standard, but we and others have voiced we would like the 4+2 to be an option on order, uptake is minimal, the fringe scenarios above will be tackled by the normal 10 day GPL process on the single live port.

Blair McGregor
Network Architect - Syscomm
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Nov-18 08:24:20
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Blmcg] [link to this post]
 
Thank you, that makes sense.

Standard User radii
(learned) Sun 11-Nov-18 10:57:12
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: fredfox] [link to this post]
 
The question is how do i get this done myself?

Rang BT retail- not able to order FTTP service/ don't support FTTPOD
Cerebrus- not able to do 2 orders at same time for FTTPOD.

Any suggestions?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Nov-18 11:23:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
First question, is FTTP orderable at your address ? If not, you might be getting little help because ‘computer says no’. It may all become a lot easier when it is available for order where you are.

I suspect Mr.Fox succeeded as the second port was enabled by Zen who are a bit more ‘together’ over such things.

Standard User candlerb
(member) Sun 11-Nov-18 12:25:07
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I think we are talking about an FTTPoD-already-in-progress location. Computer will say "no" to WBC FTTP until shortly before the FTTPoD service goes live.

The question really boils down to this: is it still possible to have two FTTP services at the same location, given that OR are now only installing single-port ONTs and single pre-connectorised fibres?

I think you'd just have to order the second FTTP and see what happens. They might swap the ONT for a 4-port; or they might install a second ONT and fibre. Or they might just say no.

In my case, I intend to ask the engineer if they have a 4-port ONT available, or if they'll pull two fibres.

I have installed some conduit for the fibre to go through; it would be a shame to pull one, only to destroy it later to pull two more.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Sun 11-Nov-18 12:50:08
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by radii:
The question is how do i get this done myself?

Rang BT retail- not able to order FTTP service/ don't support FTTPOD
Cerebrus- not able to do 2 orders at same time for FTTPOD.

Any suggestions?


You'll have to wait until the BT checker starts showing 'WBC FTTP' for your property which will only happen a few weeks before your FTTPoD service goes live. Get in touch with Cerberus or BT at that point and they will advise you if you can order a second FTTP line then and possibly get it activated at the same time as FTTPoD (or shortly afterwards). Otherwise you will have to wait until your FTTPoD is live.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sun 11-Nov-18 12:57:47)

Standard User radii
(learned) Sun 11-Nov-18 13:45:39
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
ok, will wait for WBC FTTP (currently just shows FTTPOD available) to show on the BT checker, my install time is from 3-12months....
Standard User FibreFelix
(newbie) Mon 12-Nov-18 10:29:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
I too would be very interested to find out whether this is possible. We have FTTPoD installed under the old scheme. The engineer arrived and said that whilst he could have put the new 1 port ONT in for us, as we're mixed residential and business he said he'd put a 4 port ONT in as he had one in his van and so we have that in place and working.

The checker for us is an interesting one. Before it was all installed although in the final stages, the checker said WBC FTTP available and we could have placed an order with another supplier. When it was activated however, the checker changed and now says FTTPoD 1000/220 available however and not native FTTP. I spoke to Cerberus about this and apparently after the 3 year term it will change to native FTTP. That said, the engineer said that we could have up to 4 ports on the ONT running with FTTP and there wouldn't be a need for another engineer visit as the ONT ports could be activated by an ISP remotely. We would like to potentially order another FTTP connection although on the checker it says we don't have native FTTP (even though it's installed and running) Therefore, we are unable to order.

Can anyone shed any light here as the infrastructure is all there and in place!

Edited by FibreFelix (Mon 12-Nov-18 12:22:06)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 12-Nov-18 11:24:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: FibreFelix] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by FibreFelix:
The checker for us is an interesting one. Before it was all installed although in the final stages, the checker said WBC FTTP available and we could have placed an order with another supplier. When it was activated however, the checker changed and now says FTTPoD 1000/220 available however and not native FTTP. I spoke to Cerberus about this and apparently after the 3 year term it will change to native FTTP.


Cerberus are talking utter rubbish. Once your FTTPoD is live, the BT checker should change to 'WBC FTTP' for your property - ie no different to an address with native FTTP. Mine has been like this since May 2017:

https://i.postimg.cc/pr914YdN/BT-checker.jpg

In your case it sounds like a classic Openreach database error. I would email Mr S (Andrew) your details so that he can prod Openreach to fix this, otherwise no ISP will let you order a second FTTP line.

andrew@thinkbroadband.com

Good luck! smile

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Mon 12-Nov-18 11:31:31)

Standard User ionic
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 12-Nov-18 11:53:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Pull one plus a second drawstring and leave that in situ. That can be used to pull another at a later date.
Standard User adrenalize_
(newbie) Mon 12-Nov-18 12:24:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: ionic] [link to this post]
 
If it's not a long duct run and a bit space to leave a bit of cord I usually use a puller twice the length secured both ends, easy to pull either way as many times as you like.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 12-Nov-18 14:09:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adrenalize_:
If it's not a long duct run and a bit space to leave a bit of cord I usually use a puller twice the length secured both ends, easy to pull either way as many times as you like.


Yep, that's not a bad idea, thanks.
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Mon 12-Nov-18 17:10:34
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
The checker has gone to WBC FTTP available for my premises with the latest update from Cerberus being - "Openreach confirmed that Civils are now reported as complete. Underground cabling is in progress with local Openreach cabling team."

Looks like I'm not too far away now smile
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 13-Nov-18 10:20:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
The 3k voucher has been reduced to £2.5k maximum, I've no idea when it takes affect.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8231-don-t-delay...

Standard User Turnipatour
(regular) Tue 13-Nov-18 11:42:52
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
From the attached attached Ts&Cs document on the gigabit voucher site:

Version 4.0 of these terms and conditions supersedes and replaces version 3.0 of these terms and
conditions with effect from 17:00 on 26 November 2018. You are bound by the terms of the Scheme
that are in force on the date that your supplier requests a voucher on your behalf.

Later on in the document it mentions the voucher being £2500.
Standard User Snake
(experienced) Tue 13-Nov-18 16:09:45
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
Just curious to know why you need a 4 port ONT?

Cerberus FTTPoD
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 13-Nov-18 16:14:27
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Snake] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Snake:
Just curious to know why you need a 4 port ONT?

For an additional FTTP line as the current single port ONT only supports a single line.
Otherwise it can get messy with a new ONT & fibre run for each additional fttp line

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 13-Nov-18 16:34:54)

Standard User radii
(learned) Wed 14-Nov-18 15:31:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Snake] [link to this post]
 
Hi snake,
How is your Cerberus fttpod connection? Do you have 4/2/1 port ont?
Anyone else with Cerberus fttpod connection care to comment on how it is?
Standard User gigaplant
(newbie) Wed 14-Nov-18 16:45:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
I think only the old ONTs with the separate battery pack (not the one that all fits in a box) have more than 1 port, my ONT is only 1 port (that’s fairly recently installed)
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Wed 14-Nov-18 16:52:23
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by radii:
Hi snake,
How is your Cerberus fttpod connection? Do you have 4/2/1 port ont?
Anyone else with Cerberus fttpod connection care to comment on how it is?


They no longer provide 4 port ONT's.
You will get a 1 port ONT.

I've never known a 2nd fibre to be lit for a 2nd FTTP connection.

If a 2nd FTTP service is ordered then a 4 port ONT would likely be provided (assuming this isn't arranged before hand).
OpenReach carry stock of the 4 port ONT's for this and as replacements.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 14-Nov-18 16:53:00)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Nov-18 17:36:53
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: gigaplant] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gigaplant:
I think only the old ONTs with the separate battery pack (not the one that all fits in a box) have more than 1 port, my ONT is only 1 port (that’s fairly recently installed)

Your 1+1 still has the self same separate battery back up unit.

Standard User Snake
(experienced) Wed 14-Nov-18 17:49:49
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: radii] [link to this post]
 
Only a single port ONT

Cerberus FTTPoD
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Wed 14-Nov-18 17:50:41
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
A small update from my install (ordered in March) - the duct-clearing civil work didn't go ahead during half-term, as only one of the three permits was granted. No sign of any more being applied for yet on the Kent roadworks site either - but when they *are* applied for, that brings the total Openreach will have spent on permits to a nice round £3000!

Also, the telegraph pole outside my house fell down this morning, so I have no landline at all at the moment. Fun, to say the least!
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Nov-18 17:50:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I've never known a 2nd fibre to be lit for a 2nd FTTP connection.

In the same blown four fibre bundle .... yep, installed on that before.

The home owner had to halt the stage one guy who was planning to fit a second BFT and CSP.

Standard User lincsat
(learned) Wed 14-Nov-18 19:18:21
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
Also noticed today that there is now the Fibre connection block appeared on the local Telegraph pole. I guess the next stage is the new overhead cable
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Fri 16-Nov-18 11:28:40
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
I just had an update from Cerberus this morning...

Openreach have confirmed that the costs have now been accepted and upload on their system. We are now waiting on planning to raise the work estimates.


But... I've already paid them over 3 grand for the confirmed install cost a month ago. What? crazy

EDIT: Further email, it was just badly worded. It was just to confirm that the order is now underway pretty much. Phew!

Edited by Ixel (Fri 16-Nov-18 11:33:55)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Fri 16-Nov-18 12:24:35
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that worried me too when I first saw it. In my case I got:

Openreach has advised us today that the underground cabling have encountered 2 blockages and a buried box.

New estimate will have to be raised to deal with the buried box, once we have the estimate and ECD we will let you know.


then:

Openreach informed us that the A55 (paper work from engineer) has been received and passed to civils team to raise an estimate for duct blockages.

When the estimate is raised we will have a date for the blockage clearance and we will pass it to you.


It appears such "estimates" are internal between OpenReach and their contractors. Just sit tight.
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 16-Nov-18 21:56:30
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I didn’t get an update this week but they did warn me I might not hear until next week.

Mike

Edited by abat (Sat 17-Nov-18 08:08:50)

Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Sat 17-Nov-18 10:50:19
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Last Cerberus update I had was on 30 October...

"Openreach advised that they have an Over-head estimate and underground cabling and Jointing estimate on this order. Both allocators have been chased for an update-The overhead estimate is currently awaiting a survey to be completed- 1 CABLE OVER 15 SPANS BETWEEN 16 POLES. The underground allocator has replied to advise that the earliest he can start TRRT would be 07/11/2018."

They get an update every Thursday from OR apparently, but it can taken them a day ot two to pass that on. So hopefully I'll get an email on Monday/Tuesday with the latest goings on!
Standard User thematt
(newbie) Sun 18-Nov-18 19:53:32
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Thought i'd chime in with mine.

survey came back . £8,000

Number of properties passed : 3.

Don't see how it's 3 but anyway £8k isn't feasable for me frown guess im stuck with 80Mbit VDSL since virgin have been broken in Bedford for 3 years now and is still broken (oversubscribed)
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 18-Nov-18 20:45:02
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: thematt] [link to this post]
 
It’ll be the three other properties served by the same copper DP as your current line.

Standard User candlerb
(member) Sun 18-Nov-18 21:35:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: thematt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by thematt:
survey came back . £8,000


Desktop survey?

If you are prepared to gamble £250+VAT to find out, the final price will almost certainly be under £6000, and 50:50 chance it's under £4000.

That's still a lot to upgrade from 80/20 VDSL of course.

If you're a business there's a £2500 gigabit voucher available.
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Mon 19-Nov-18 15:05:42
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Just thought I would pop in and say hello, have benefited a lot from the info in here, so thanks to everyone. In rural North Yorkshire with 2.5-3 miles back to exchange.
Desktop Request 26/04/18
Desktop Quote Received 01/06/18 for £29,100ex VAT
Survey Request 01/06/18 paid £250.00
Final Quote 10/09/18 for £12,514.00ex VAT (£3k Gigabit voucher to remove and VAT reclaimable as we are a set of holiday cottages we need decent broadband as can have 40 guests on site)
...and that is with me installing 150m of ducting across our land
Less than 50% of desktop quote, however between the desktop and survey a lot of work was done in the town meaning 50% of the distance was in perfect working order as they pulled fibre for a new estate.
Order Placed 01/10/18
Have since received delivery of ducting for me to install but not draw rope so I can't start.
Today Morrisons turned up to install 240m of duct in the verge of our lane to connect us up to the nearest duct.
Cereberus have been great with communication. Just need OR to be a bit more communicative, have spent £12k with them and not a phone call from their Planner/PM to ensure I know what is going.
I had a delivery of 67 lengths of 3m duct turn up out of the blue and unloaded into garage! But can't start as need a rope and to confirm final route, we discussed two options with surveyor and I have a choice of two ground boxes I can terminate ducts to.
Dave
Standard User busterboy
(member) Mon 19-Nov-18 17:51:43
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
I also live in rural North Yorkshire and Morrisons Utilities came round our village just west of Harrogate last week preparing for the Phase 3 installation.
Please don't answer if you don't want to but where in Rural Yorkshire are you "ie" nearest town / city.

BTBroadband
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Mon 19-Nov-18 17:58:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: busterboy] [link to this post]
 
Pickering. North Yorkshire is a big spot! I had numerous conversations with SFNY (Super Fast North Yorkshire) and they were very helpful. The long and the short of it is we aren't on Phase 3, which I gleaned from SFNY standard info but also that with only 1 other property on our dead end lane it was unlikely that we would end up on the list for Phase 4 or Phase 5 if they get more money allocated. If I wanted it then FTTPoD was the only route.
Running a set of holiday cottages I now see Amazon Echo, Netflix devices, and games consoles on the network, and with 40 guests it is not that unusual to see 80 devices on their side of the network. Add that to 80 odd devices in our home and existing bandwidth can soon be gobbled up.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 19-Nov-18 17:59:54
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: busterboy] [link to this post]
 
Or tell us exactly, so we can book a holiday in the cottages once the fibre is in smile
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 19-Nov-18 18:07:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Or tell us exactly, so we can book a holiday in the cottages once the fibre is in smile
Expanding on that, he could crowd-fund it at a day's free stay per £100. wink

(The logistics of fulfilling the promise could be complex!)

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 72382/13812Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 19-Nov-18 18:08:25)

Standard User busterboy
(member) Mon 19-Nov-18 18:16:04
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Pickering. North Yorkshire is a big spot! I had numerous conversations with SFNY (Super Fast North Yorkshire) and they were very helpful. The long and the short of it is we aren't on Phase 3, which I gleaned from SFNY standard info but also that with only 1 other property on our dead end lane it was unlikely that we would end up on the list for Phase 4 or Phase 5 if they get more money allocated. If I wanted it then FTTPoD was the only route.
Running a set of holiday cottages I now see Amazon Echo, Netflix devices, and games consoles on the network, and with 40 guests it is not that unusual to see 80 devices on their side of the network. Add that to 80 odd devices in our home and existing bandwidth can soon be gobbled up.


Small world, I took a shooting party up Yatts Road in Pickering only last week and yes.. You are in the sticks. laugh

SFNY is a God send to me, Matt Roberts is looking after us and getting things moving.

Good luck my friend, I hope you are online very soon. smile

BTBroadband
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 20-Nov-18 11:30:14
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Didn't want to post a link on my first day as presume I would be blacklisted for advertising! We run a Draytek Router and load balance between 4MB on copper line and 15MB on radio based community WiFi. Some traffic limiting, routing and priority setting has kept us running successfully so far! We upgraded internal wifi to unifi this year with a AP in each cottage and backhaul using nanoobeams.
The upgrade to fibre is more with an eye on the future with streaming devices becoming more prevalent, bandwidth demands from customers is only going to go one way. We will also me able to advertise super fast to each cottage! And apart from the capital cost the ongoing cost is the same as we pay now for two services but 17 times as fast.
But the crowd funding comment isn't so far off the mark. Ultimately we have to attract customers. If we attract 1 more booking per month for 4-years then the cost is comfortably funded. 1-more booking seems doable, if it turns a click into a booking.
The bill is paid, and the guys are here again today digging trenches for the ducts, then TRRT, jointing, blowing, terminations and eventually I'll get there.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 20-Nov-18 12:07:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
That sounds brilliant!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 01/10/18 - 72382/13812Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
==================================================
If you never think of anything off the wall, you'll never think of anything original.
Standard User Webbs
(learned) Thu 22-Nov-18 20:57:31
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
If you're a business there's a £2500 gigabit voucher available.


Does being a sole trader with a UTR number registered at my address count for voucher scheme eligibility do you know plz?
Standard User candlerb
(member) Thu 22-Nov-18 22:43:46
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Webbs] [link to this post]
 
Here are the terms and conditions.

If required to do so you must provide evidence of your status as a SME or sole trader.
Documentation we will accept includes: VAT registration; Charity Registration: HMRC
notification; sole trader UTR number; certification of incorporation (Limited Companies);
business bank account statement issued within the last three months; non-domestic rates
reference. Other documentation, such as business-related utility bills, may be acceptable in
special conditions if combined with other documentation.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Fri 23-Nov-18 18:37:57
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Webbs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Webbs:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
If you're a business there's a £2500 gigabit voucher available.


Does being a sole trader with a UTR number registered at my address count for voucher scheme eligibility do you know plz?


I'd be surprised if a UTR number alone was enough. Your UTR number doesn't change. If you do 1 days work self employed you can get a UTR number from HMRC.

Even a general labourer on a construction site likely has a UTR number as more and more are forced in to "fake" self-employment.
I saw the mention of UTR in the t&c's some time ago but assumed more should be needed because of how easy a UTR is to get.

Though if you did get accepted with a UTR number alone then by all means report that back here. That would be a game changer for me.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Sat 24-Nov-18 14:08:01
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Take it up with your supplier; they are the ones who will have to apply for the voucher on your behalf.

As far as I understand, it's a question of being able to demonstrate that you are "trading" at that address. In my case, I was asked to provide either a business rates bill, a supplier invoice, or a business bank statement.
Standard User rman
(newbie) Mon 26-Nov-18 22:31:56
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Thought i'd share my latest update and at the same time ask if anyone knew what the next stages are for on order typically.

My latest info was: Openreach confirmed that underground cabling works estimate has now been raised with an estimated completion date of 29/11

My build estimate was approved and paid for on 22nd October.

What are the remaning stages till my connection is complete and usable?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Nov-18 08:08:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rman:
What are the remaning stages till my connection is complete and usable?


http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4552969-my-...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 27-Nov-18 09:01:29
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
For comparison:

My confirmed order was submitted end of June. The survey said it required 34m of new duct and a new chamber.

OR first sent out their cabling people, who discovered upstream blocked ducts. It took a couple of months to fix and rope all of those. *Then* they started work on the new duct (mid-October). After digging a test hole, the contractor queried the permit[^1], left the hole with barriers around it for a couple of weeks, then fully reinstated it. A few weeks later they got a new permit and started all over again - they are working on it now.

I'm not expecting service until Jan-Feb at the earliest. But that's pretty good going compared to some.

[^1] The permit said "verge", and they weren't sure if this allowed them to work on carriageway or footway. However this bit of road doesn't have a footway tongue
Standard User candlerb
(member) Tue 27-Nov-18 09:06:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
BTW, to view the images in baby_frogmella's linked post, you need to change postimg.org to postimg.cc
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Tue 27-Nov-18 11:09:10
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
Just to update the thread with my order progress. Last week Cerberus told me that OR about to begin the underground cabling, hopefully there won't be many complications there (e.g. blocked ducts). I'm waiting for another update regarding the date, hopefully I'll hear about that later this week. I can't wait to get FTTP smile!
Standard User Spinstorm
(committed) Wed 28-Nov-18 18:41:38
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
So I got this today from Cerebus

“Estimated Build Cost: £9,300.00 ex VAT

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 6”

I am going to go ahead and make the order so I can get the survey done. I won’t be paying that estimate above there but if its less than 5k I just might.

I was told at least 2 months for the survey as there is stop on new orders that is removed on 1st Dec and they are full up with Dec orders - so sometime January for survey.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Thu 29-Nov-18 16:06:25
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
Just had an update today regarding my order.

The civils to build a new cable chamber box will need to be completed first before Openreach get cablers issued to complete the cabling on the short route. As soon as this has been completed I will let you know.


I wonder how far the cable is actually coming, 'on the short route' is interesting. I guess I'll see something on 'roadworks' soon.
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Thu 29-Nov-18 17:25:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I've just had the new overhead cable and gone live with Cerberus Today.

My initial request for Desktop quote was Mid-Feb and it was mid-July when I placed the order, so 4 Months.

Downloads are currently showing only 100Mbit but I still have to change the 15m Ethernet cable between the ONT and Router which isn't the best, so will see how things go.
Standard User Retron
(newbie) Thu 29-Nov-18 17:34:59
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
I've never been so happy to be stuck a red traffic light on my way home from work. After something like the fifth attempt the "civils" are now underway to clear duct blockages with traffic lights popping up on the neighbouring road. Roadworks.org reports:

PROVISION OF SERVICE – Excavate onto BT ducts for the clearance of duct blockages in Fw/cw/verge to facilitate spine cabling works.

and

TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT to facilitate BT Openreach Fibre Cabling Works – Portable traffic signal head only, linked to notice/permit number (BC006M...)

If any of the people in the affected road read that they'd get quite excitied I'd imagine... whereas it's my road that'll benefit from it. Full marks to Cerberus for chasing and chasing and chasing!
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 29-Nov-18 22:21:33
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Retron] [link to this post]
 
My update this week:

The underground and jointing estimates have now been raised, we are just waiting on the start dates, we will let you know as soon as we have them.


Mike
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Fri 30-Nov-18 18:17:51
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: griff_90] [link to this post]
 
I've requested my full survey.
Timeline:
2/10/18 - Requested desktop survey (Cerberus)
18/10/18 - Desktop survey £15,600.00 (ex. VAT)
23/10/18 - Full survey requested

Also, Howdy & all that jazz
Standard User bomber456
(committed) Fri 30-Nov-18 20:50:47
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Spinstorm] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spinstorm:
So I got this today from Cerebus

“Estimated Build Cost: £9,300.00 ex VAT

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 6”

I am going to go ahead and make the order so I can get the survey done. I won’t be paying that estimate above there but if its less than 5k I just might.

I was told at least 2 months for the survey as there is stop on new orders that is removed on 1st Dec and they are full up with Dec orders - so sometime January for survey.


Hi when did you submit your order for your survey? i presume mine will be done in the new year too. Desktop quote was £8900+VAT hoping it will be under 5k...

...
Standard User rman
(newbie) Mon 03-Dec-18 10:53:04
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: bomber456] [link to this post]
 
I quite like reading updates from other people so ithought i'd share mine.

I've just had a look at planned road/street works in my area and spotted some BT work on the green cabinets that i assume is related to my fibre install. There are 2, i assume for the original green cab and the FTTC green cab.

1: STREET CABINET and POWER INSTALLATION. Excavate to lay approx 22m BT ducts, Lay concrete plinth, Stand cab. Excavate to expose low voltage cable for Power Connection and lay approx m duct. POWER engineer to carry out inspection prior to jointing. POWER jointing team to insert cable and execute jointing works. Reinstate, Check and clear site.

2. STREET CABINET and POWER INSTALLATION. Excavate to lay approx 16m BT ducts, Lay concrete plinth, Stand cab. Excavate to expose low voltage cable for Power Connection and lay approx 36m duct. POWER engineer to carry out inspection prior to jointing. POWER jointing team to insert cable and execute jointing works. Reinstate, Check and clear site.

Both have the date 7 Dec - 14 Dec.
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 03-Dec-18 11:44:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
As I understand, FTTP doesn't use the cabinets at all, so it's probably just coincidence.

I actually had the same. My FTTC cabinet has reached capacity: the availability checker shows "waiting list" when I search by address (but not by phone number, where it just shows "available").

So they had to reshell the PCP to increase the tie-pair capacity. That involved some pavement digging too. But AFAIK it's nothing to do with the ongoing FTTPoD install.
Standard User lincsat
(learned) Mon 03-Dec-18 12:26:34
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I don't know the correct terms but my surveyor said that there was some new fibre equipment needed near the AN, I assume some sort of connector/splitter. In my case it was going down a manhole around 5M away from the AN (which is also down a manhole)
Standard User candlerb
(member) Mon 03-Dec-18 12:47:45
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: lincsat] [link to this post]
 
Yes it's all underground: this video outlines it. You get a brief view of an aggregation node (at 3:07) and splitter node (at 3:24).

My guess is that you are quite close to the aggregation node, so they put a splitter next to it to serve you (and in future, anyone else nearby)
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 03-Dec-18 13:02:56
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
+1

Standard User brookheather
(learned) Mon 03-Dec-18 15:35:15
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Today OpenReach have started running the fibre cable through the ducting from the AG node for my FTTPoD order so hopefully not too long now before installation is complete.
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Mon 03-Dec-18 19:46:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: rman] [link to this post]
 
Those roadworks are definitely unrelated to your FTTPoD install.
I've never seen any FTTP equipment in any cabinet. It's in underground chambers or pole mounted.

There's no reason for them to touch the PCP cabinet or the FTTC cabinet.

In some cases the Aggregation Node could be in a chamber right next to a PCP. Even then nothing goes through the PCP from the Agg Node.
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 10:47:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Well I found two big BT trucks parked outside on the lane, the team are to here to install fibre from my gate to exchange. 2000m+ run that they are now working on, I take it as a good sign! Nice bunch of lads, their spare truck & fibre reel now parked in our carpark while the explore the route (welcome to the country)!

I only notified Openreach that I had finished my180m of ducting yesterday morning, so possibly scheduled in ahead of my completion as they are only doing to my gate.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Dec-18 10:56:44
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Well I found two big BT trucks parked outside on the lane, the team are to here to install fibre from my gate to exchange. 2000m+ run that they are now working on, I take it as a good sign! Nice bunch of lads, their spare truck & fibre reel now parked in our carpark while the explore the route (welcome to the country)!

I only notified Openreach that I had finished my180m of ducting yesterday morning, so possibly scheduled in ahead of my completion as they are only doing to my gate.


If you've ordered FTTPoD then Openreach will install fibre from your premises to the nearest fibre aggregation point, not to the exchange. Unless you've ordered a fibre leased line?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS

Edited by baby_frogmella (Tue 04-Dec-18 11:18:27)

Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 12:41:37
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
All along they have stated it is being dragged back to the exchange. Is it possible this is the nearest Aggregation point? We are rural. Exchange is 2miles away. I have queried a couple of times as they put fibre to a new housing estate recently (1.25miles away). After that there is maybe 5 premises before you get to us.
They did send a technical update to state they had a planned reroute to avoid the high street but presumably just working round the edges of the high street rather than going down the hughstreet which is the shortest route.
Cheers
Dave.
Standard User Cammy
(regular) Tue 04-Dec-18 12:58:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Interesting.

So for your £12.5k, am I right in saying what you got were parts & labour for 240m of new duct laid in the verge plus parts-only for 210m of duct which you self-installed, then parts & labour for about 2km of fibre (plus the usual baseline cost items)?

Edited by Cammy (Tue 04-Dec-18 13:20:41)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Dec-18 13:01:07
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
It might be that your nearest agg node is close to the exchange but your line will still connect to an agg node.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 14:08:41
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Yup pretty much.
£12.5k+VAT (reclaimed) less grant at £3000, so I forked out just less £10k.
- parts for my dig, plus their labour to connect my duct to their ground box.
- 242m of duct (according to roadworks.org) laid by contractor
- then there is existing ducting laid for about 1-mile to the edge of town that won't have been touched for a while. They carry the risk on this and would need roping and inner duct laying according to survey (see below).
- then a further 1-mile back to the exchange which is where they say it is running to. Acknowledging that it may be connected to Ag node in the vicinity of the exchange.

In the country the drawings don't match reality (which resulted in my phone line being cut last year as it was on the other side of the road to everyone else!)
I would add that since it was surveyed they have spent weeks in town running fibre for the new housing estate which is on the route. This may have partially cleared my route.
Some other work related to wayleaves since survey also meant they had already moled a duct under my tarmac road/entrance way which previously wasn't ducted. This would have been on my list.
The team on the ground currently believe there are 2 spare inner ducts in a 4-way from neighbours but they aren't scheduled to use this for some reason. The have said they could blow fibre down this from 240m away from me.

They carry the risk on blocked ducts which is possible. 'We' cut the verges in enormous tractors and trample all over them in heavy goods vehicles. I won't feel out of the woods till this whole lot is rodded and roped back to town.

Distance to exchange is roughly 2.5miles by shortest route on road.

Don't suppose I'll a refund!
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Dec-18 14:55:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Ah the joys of living in the countryside!

But seriously, you got a good deal from Openreach for a rural FTTPoD install albeit with you having to do a bit of the digging. Most people would get eye watering build costs in rural areas (for obvious reasons).

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 16:12:18
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Frogmella
The cost seemed reasonable to me given the effort. They knew some of the works were in the pipeline, as housing estates don't pop up over night and I suspect they may already have rodded and roped everything bar our lane (1/2 mile) due to other villages being online. There is a SuperFastNorthYorkshire fund so a lot of effort going on locally, I did speak to them but with just 3 houses on a 3/4 mile dead end road we won't make it on their list anytime soon.
I volunteered my dig as it goes through the middle of the main guest lawn. Didn't want an unmotivated contractor doing it at a cost/m. We stripped turf with a turf cutter, dug channel, refilled, lightly compacted with tractor, and gardener is today levelling/top dressing, and replacing turf. Plus local digger driver will be cheaper!
Looking forward to it, hopefully no more complaints from guests on wi-fi speeds!
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:23:19
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
As the job progresses I get more and more greedy. I know they run multiple fibres to the premises, is it possible once installed to have a second ONT installed using one of the other fibres with a second FFTP connection?
We run two broadband connections currently (Openreach and WISP) so dual bandwidth is something we are used to.
The exchange states LLUs available are Sky & TalkTalk. Could I stick one on Sky, we have all the channels and they will not add much to the package to add broadband. If Cerberus was taken down by missile strike would the Sky option remain up?
Fully understand that the weakest link would be the fibre cable back to Agg Node which if damaged would wipe out both. But sky offer me broadband at £5-£10/month. If that was 80/20 it would add a lot of resiliency to main 330/30 for not a lot of extra beans. I know that 330 is lot and that I am being greedy just interested. As we run holiday cottages It might also make sense to split home/guest networks (currently VLANs) and using two connections would separate us entirely. My streaming wouldn't be affected by guests and vice versa.
Presumably I couldn't order a second FTTP connection now as it shows FTTP not available, and it would force me down ADSL route.
Cheers
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:25:07
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brookheather:
Today OpenReach have started running the fibre cable through the ducting from the AG node for my FTTPoD order so hopefully not too long now before installation is complete.

Awesome, I think that is where I am with mine. It is great to see progress - keep us posted.

Dear Santa, for Christmas please can I have super fast!

Edited by F00tS0re (Tue 04-Dec-18 17:56:18)

Standard User Cammy
(regular) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:36:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
just 3 houses on a 3/4 mile dead end road


We are similar - 4 houses up a dead end. Unlike you, our lines are overhead for about 1km until they enter the village then about 500m underground to the cabinet at the cross (then an unknown distance to the AN).

Has anyone had a quote for mostly overhead so we can compare the cost relative to underground?
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:59:31
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Cammy] [link to this post]
 
Cheap. My brother has had his desktop quote. Similar country lane and distances to mine, edit: except all overhead lines. Initial desktop quote was £6500-ish. Compared to my initial quote of £29k+VAT followed by real quote of £12500+VAT.
He is waiting for survey after paying £250 fee. With a grant to come off and hopefully a discount from desktop to surveyed his could become really reasonable.

Nailing a fibre cable to some posts has got to be cheaper than trenching and ducting.

Edited by F00tS0re (Tue 04-Dec-18 18:10:14)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Dec-18 18:50:30
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
As the job progresses I get more and more greedy. I know they run multiple fibres to the premises, is it possible once installed to have a second ONT installed using one of the other fibres with a second FFTP connection?


If you get the newer '1 stage' FTTP install (most likely) then they will run a connectorised (pre-made) fibre cable from the DP direct to your single LAN port ONT. However you could kindly ask the Openreach bod on the day of the internal install if they could supply you with the 4 port older ONT which supports multiple FTTP lines. Otherwise Openreach would swap out the single port ONT with a 4 port ONT at a later date after you have placed the 2nd FTTP order.

Alternatively, like i did, you may get fibre blown from the DP to your premises which is usually 4 fibre strands in 1 tube - this will terminate at a Customer Splice Point (CSP) outside. From there they splice 1 fibre strand to a lead-in fibre cable which terminates at the ONT. The remaining 3 fibre strands are kept as spares in the CSP all nicely coiled up. TBH i don't think you will need any of the 3 spares as the single live fibre strand supports at least 4 FTTP lines.

This is my fibre CSP:
https://i.postimg.cc/tJwXB3vB/IMG-001.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8PfkjYs9/IMG-002.jpg

4 port ONT:
https://i.postimg.cc/WpHbpVp0/IMG-004.jpg

Internal guts of the CSP:
https://i.postimg.cc/tT1RWv2s/IMG-0360.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Kvhc3NLY/IMG-0361.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fymwgt4Z/IMG-0362.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9X7FfSDS/IMG-0363.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RV1S7HQL/IMG-0364.jpg

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Tue 04-Dec-18 19:59:00
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
It might be that your nearest agg node is close to the exchange but your line will still connect to an agg node.


I've commented on it a couple of times in the past but in some cases, particularly in very rural areas, the local FTT* infrastructure is fed directly from the exchange.

In areas of the Scottish Highlands for example, some FTTC cabinets aren't fed by Aggregation Nodes placed between or near cabinets, but directly from the exchange.

Wether they use the same Aggregation Nodes placed inside the exchange, or in underground chambers on/near the exchange grounds in these cases, I have absolutely no idea.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Tue 04-Dec-18 20:25:06
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
It might be that your nearest agg node is close to the exchange but your line will still connect to an agg node.


I've commented on it a couple of times in the past but in some cases, particularly in very rural areas, the local FTT* infrastructure is fed directly from the exchange.

In areas of the Scottish Highlands for example, some FTTC cabinets aren't fed by Aggregation Nodes placed between or near cabinets, but directly from the exchange.

Wether they use the same Aggregation Nodes placed inside the exchange, or in underground chambers on/near the exchange grounds in these cases, I have absolutely no idea.


But I was under the impression that exchanges in very rural areas aren’t equipped for FTTx services and instead rural fibre lines terminate at the nearest head end exchange which can be many many miles away? Unless BT/Openreach have recently upgraded rural exchanges to support FTTx lines at the same time as upgrades to 21CN (adsl2+)?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User j0hn83
(experienced) Tue 04-Dec-18 22:26:32
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
But I was under the impression that exchanges in very rural areas aren’t equipped for FTTx services and instead rural fibre lines terminate at the nearest head end exchange which can be many many miles away

Generally yes
The head-end can still be very rural though.

Most assume all small rural exchanges are fed by larger urban exchanges but that's a massive over simplification.
Some areas of the country OpenReach has smaller "child" exchanges that link to a larger "parent" head-end exchange.
Some areas it's the opposite and larger exchanges are fed from a smaller head-end.

OpenReach haven't used the 1 size fits all for the whole country. That makes sense as every area is different.

I think Aggregation Nodes cater for around 1400 homes?
Maybe in more rural areas the exchange is a more central location for an Agg Node than near a distant cabinet? or if there's nowhere near 1400 homes perhaps they do things different? I'm Speculating here, I don't know the specifics.

It's not impossible that the poster above is being fed his fibre from NGA equipment at/near his exchange, as he was advised a number of times.

The Agg Node might simply be in a chamber outside the exchange.
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 09:49:18
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
If I see the team again I'll see if they can give me any further info on kit/equipment. But if it connects to Agg Node then most likely it will be connected to an Agg Node, either in/on/nearby exchange.

The surveyor, the notes supplied by Cereberus, the update that stated they had a reroute sorted to avoid the high street, and the guys stating it was a 2km+ pull all point to the fact that the fibre is headed to the exchange. If will be connected to a thing, located in a thing, connected to other things!
The DP will likely go in the box in the verge, then a 200m -ish run into the greenhouse (ducting installed under greenhouse floor) for the CSP, and straight through the wall to put the ONT right next to the server cabinet. 200m run possibly excludes pre made connecterised install from DP.

Now to upgrade the Draytek 2860 which seemingly only has 150MB throughput (300MB total split in/out). Never thought I would have that problem. As we use UniFi for hotspots, and end switches I most likely will go for USG-Pro-4 (the extra cost over the USG is small so may as well have the extra processing power). New toys!
Standard User dect
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 10:11:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Yup pretty much.
£12.5k+VAT (reclaimed) less grant at £3000, so I forked out just less £10k.
- parts for my dig, plus their labour to connect my duct to their ground box.
- 242m of duct (according to roadworks.org) laid by contractor
- then there is existing ducting laid for about 1-mile to the edge of town that won't have been touched for a while. They carry the risk on this and would need roping and inner duct laying according to survey (see below).
- then a further 1-mile back to the exchange which is where they say it is running to. Acknowledging that it may be connected to Ag node in the vicinity of the exchange.

In the country the drawings don't match reality (which resulted in my phone line being cut last year as it was on the other side of the road to everyone else!)
I would add that since it was surveyed they have spent weeks in town running fibre for the new housing estate which is on the route. This may have partially cleared my route.
Some other work related to wayleaves since survey also meant they had already moled a duct under my tarmac road/entrance way which previously wasn't ducted. This would have been on my list.
The team on the ground currently believe there are 2 spare inner ducts in a 4-way from neighbours but they aren't scheduled to use this for some reason. The have said they could blow fibre down this from 240m away from me.

They carry the risk on blocked ducts which is possible. 'We' cut the verges in enormous tractors and trample all over them in heavy goods vehicles. I won't feel out of the woods till this whole lot is rodded and roped back to town.

Distance to exchange is roughly 2.5miles by shortest route on road.

Don't suppose I'll a refund!


Can I please ask what size duct (96mm, 54mm or some other size) Openreach supplied for your part of the dig (last 210m)
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 13:44:25
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
Can I please ask what size duct (96mm, 54mm or some other size) Openreach supplied for your part of the dig (last 210m)


54mm

3m lengths with a push fit into each end. Would have rather had a roll than 67 lengths but suspect they don't issue rolls to end customers!

Openreach were spotted this morning somewhere down the lane staring into hole. Wife said digging holes but presumably just digging joint box out. Looks likely they are working their way backwards towards civilisation.
Standard User dect
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 14:27:35
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Alternatively, like i did, you may get fibre blown from the DP to your premises which is usually 4 fibre strands in 1 tube - this will terminate at a Customer Splice Point (CSP) outside. From there they splice 1 fibre strand to a lead-in fibre cable which terminates at the ONT. The remaining 3 fibre strands are kept as spares in the CSP all nicely coiled up. TBH i don't think you will need any of the 3 spares as the single live fibre strand supports at least 4 FTTP lines.


Did they push/pull the fibre tube through the duct first then blow the 4 fibre strands down the fibre tube afterwards or did they blow them all through together?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 05-Dec-18 14:49:10
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dect:
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
Alternatively, like i did, you may get fibre blown from the DP to your premises which is usually 4 fibre strands in 1 tube - this will terminate at a Customer Splice Point (CSP) outside. From there they splice 1 fibre strand to a lead-in fibre cable which terminates at the ONT. The remaining 3 fibre strands are kept as spares in the CSP all nicely coiled up. TBH i don't think you will need any of the 3 spares as the single live fibre strand supports at least 4 FTTP lines.


Did they push/pull the fibre tube through the duct first then blow the 4 fibre strands down the fibre tube afterwards or did they blow them all through together?


Not 100% sure as I didn't watch them do it but I believe they first put in the black/yellow tubing in the duct and then the fibre was blown in. The Distribution Point (DP) is only 20-30m away with relatively new ducts so it was quite an easy job for Openreach.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User dect
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 15:24:48
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
54mm


Sorry for all the questions, what depth did they ask you to bury the duct (350mm, 600mm or something else)
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 15:30:13
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
No problem, they didn't. They just pointed me towards the Openreach specification for self install. This states 300mm but to be honest 12inches is a spade depth and within reach [of some tractor implements] so most of the trench is 18inches deep except in a couple of areas where it was really tough going and is only 300mm. Marked location and depths on site plan! Most of the 300mm depth is under a path that will be relaid when it stops raining so not worried about damage there.
They also didn't notify me of any deliveries, just an HGV on your doorstep asking to unload! Or confirm the ground box I was aiming at. Don't expect any help, confirmation or reassurance. None of this bothered me, just something to be aware of.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Dec-18 16:48:45
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
200m run possibly excludes pre made connecterised install from DP.

There are 350m connectorised reels available on special order ... very unlikely to be blown fibre to the CSP. DP to ONT in one go.

You should get a ‘pre visit’ before the actual install, explain then about the length required and that should help iron out issues on the day.

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Dec-18 16:59:40
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
The fibre is blown through the tubing. You’d need one helluva compressor to blow the tubing through the duct.

Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 17:45:39
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The fibre is blown through the tubing. You’d need one helluva compressor to blow the tubing through the duct.

Especially as in in my case it is in sections and therefore not airtight!
Rod, rope, then pull inner duct through. Then blow fibre seems to be the methodology.
Standard User dect
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 17:47:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The fibre is blown through the tubing. You’d need one helluva compressor to blow the tubing through the duct.


That's the first thing that crossed my mind that why I thought I would get clarity.
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Wed 05-Dec-18 17:58:39
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
200m run possibly excludes pre made connecterised install from DP.

There are 350m connectorised reels available on special order ... very unlikely to be blown fibre to the CSP. DP to ONT in one go.

You should get a ‘pre visit’ before the actual install, explain then about the length required and that should help iron out issues on the day.

They know the length, and plenty visits so far.
We normally pop out and say hello and offer parking and tea. Had an Openreach wagon parked all day yesterday as there is not much room in the lane, previously stored diggers, trailers etc during day and overnight for groundworks. Seemingly not much progress today, they have spent most of the day with the wagon on the next lane down, probably half-mile of road and there most the day. But if they get that bit done then home and dry.

Although they may as well stick the DP in my greenhouse as 0.25mile ish to next neighbours either way so not sure the DP will benefit anyone other than me if longest connectorised reel is 350m (definitely won't reach).
Starts thinking about fibre direct to each cottage!
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 05-Dec-18 20:00:51
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
They know the length, and plenty visits so far.


But I I suspect not by anyone who might add useful notes for the installer.

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Wed 05-Dec-18 21:09:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Starts thinking about fibre direct to each cottage!


You've clearly got all the skills for running the ducts from your server room to the properties! smile

I can make some suggestions for connecting it up if you like - Campus Networking is one of my things.
Standard User dect
(newbie) Thu 06-Dec-18 08:42:43
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
There are 350m connectorised reels available on special order


This is good to know as I always thought the longest reel was around 150m for duct use, are there any other lengths available between 150m and 350m for ducts use?

if using a connectorised reel, can it connect from the CBT straight to the ONT without the need for a CSP (in my case the fibre feed will come straight into an equipment room via duct not through an outside wall)?

Edited by dect (Thu 06-Dec-18 08:47:15)

Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Thu 06-Dec-18 09:13:10
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Starts thinking about fibre direct to each cottage!


You've clearly got all the skills for running the ducts from your server room to the properties! smile

I can make some suggestions for connecting it up if you like - Campus Networking is one of my things.

They are all connected already just via ubiquiti nanoobeams running wireless links at 330MB to three cottage blocks, then a a UniFi AP in each cottage. But I was more thinking run fibre direct to each cottage and pay for multiple links, giving each cottage 80/20 or more!
Digging the central courtyard up would be horrible as it is full of main drains, surface water drains, and electric pipes, although only a gravel finish, the amount of under ground stuff would result i na fair bit of hand trenching.
But if we go faster than 330/50 up to 500 or 1G then the three links are looking small. One block has three APs, for three cottages, 18-beds between them. If it was ducted and cabled in CAT6 (or 5e at a push) then it would do 1Gbps allowing all bandwidth to pushed to each block if the demand was there.
Bud if Openreach fitted the DP on site I could even run fibre direct!
The links are good for now, but as some point won't be, a single domestic router providing wifi only in reception was good for everyone once.
Cheers
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 06-Dec-18 09:39:03
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
160 to 350, that’s it as far as I am aware.

Yes. That’s exactly how it’s meant to be connected.

Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 06-Dec-18 10:13:23
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
It's fantastic that you are going to all this work and expense for your holiday cottages. I recently stayed somewhere that had FTTP available to order, but there was just very limited and patchy WiFi on site. I had to use my phone for tethering with it propped up in a window. I often use the Internet to find places to visit, pubs restaurants etc. As well as catching up with the forums in the morning/evenings, and my two daughters are always on the net. So decent WiFi is something I always look for when booking places.

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Thu 06-Dec-18 11:04:33
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
They are all connected already just via ubiquiti nanoobeams running wireless links at 330MB to three cottage blocks, then a a UniFi AP in each cottage. But I was more thinking run fibre direct to each cottage and pay for multiple links, giving each cottage 80/20 or more!


Why pay BT multiple times, when you can serve all the buildings from a single fast link? Your main link is presumably 330/30 or 330/50, and in future may be upgradeable to 1000/220.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Digging the central courtyard up would be horrible as it is full of main drains, surface water drains, and electric pipes, although only a gravel finish, the amount of under ground stuff would result i na fair bit of hand trenching.


What I don't quite follow is: why using BT to deliver fibre to the properties would be different in this regard than running your own fibre.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
But if we go faster than 330/50 up to 500 or 1G then the three links are looking small. One block has three APs, for three cottages, 18-beds between them. If it was ducted and cabled in CAT6 (or 5e at a push) then it would do 1Gbps allowing all bandwidth to pushed to each block if the demand was there.


Don't run copper between buildings - it's dangerous. If there's a thunderstorm storm nearby, it can induce a large potential difference between buildings, which at best fries the electronics, and at worst will kill someone. If you *must* use copper between buildings then install a CAT5-specific lightening arrestor at each end, and have it properly earthed by an electrician. But really, fibre is the way to go.

If you run your own fibre pair to each building or cluster of buildings, you can run these at 1Gbps cheaply, and upgrade in future to 10G or higher. Use single-mode fibre (OS2), which is the same as telcos use: essentially unlimited distance and speed, and it's actually cheaper than multi-mode which is not as good. You connect it to an 1000baseLX SFP at each end.

At each building you need a switch which has an SFP port. The Netgear GS110TP is very nice for this: it has 2 SFP and 8 copper, and the 8 copper all drive PoE so can be used to power your APs without power injectors (*). It can be monitored via SNMP, and has web and telnet CLI (**).

At the centre you want a switch or router with multiple SFP ports. I would go with Mikrotik CCR1016-12S-1S+ which is a router with 12 SFP ports and one SFP+ (10G) port. You can use a copper SFP to connect to your ONT. Weirdly, this will be almost the only copper link in your entire network smile

The nice thing about the Mikrotik being a proper multi-port router is that you can give each building its own subnet and route between them. This means that a network problem in one building (e.g. a broadcast storm) does not affect the other buildings. You can also apply ACLs, e.g. to stop a guest in one building from attempting to attack or spread viruses to guests in other buildings.

Ideally each building would have its own fibre pair back to the central router. Although the Netgear has two SFP ports, avoid the temptation to daisy-chain from one Netgear to another to another. Your network will end up really unreliable, and if there's a problem it will be almost impossible to debug.

However it's OK to join fibres together to make a path. For example, let's say you have a cluster of 4 buildings. You can run an 8-strand cable to building A, and 2-strand cables from A to B, A to C and A to D. Then you join them together at A, so physically you have a mini star around building A, but buildings A-D each have a separate fibre pair back to your server room.

In practice this isn't always possible, and one level of daisy chaining is OK. So if building A had a switch with four SFP ports, you could run run connections from switch A to switch B, switch A to switch C, and switch A to switch D. It's less optimal: all four buildings will be on the same subnet, and if switch A fails or loses power, buildings B-D will all lose service as well.

You will either need a friendly fibre contractor on hand, or you will need to get pre-made cables of the right length. Armoured cables can be directly buried. Even with ducts, you want to be careful of rats chewing the cables; after pulling cables plug the ducts with a cement plug.

If this stuff interests you, then you might want to look at this and this.

If this is not of interest, then for an easy life you install separate Openreach services to each property, but at N x £30 per month it will add up.

Cheers,

Brian.

(*) The power is standard PoE 802.3af. Most APs work fine with this, e.g. Unifi AC Lite. The old Unifi AC Pro needed higher power "PoE+" 802.3at, and don't work reliability on the Netgear.

(**) telnet port 60000 after enabling it in the web interface. Not well publicised feature smile
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Thu 06-Dec-18 11:36:05
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
They are all connected already just via ubiquiti nanoobeams running wireless links at 330MB to three cottage blocks, then a a UniFi AP in each cottage. But I was more thinking run fibre direct to each cottage and pay for multiple links, giving each cottage 80/20 or more!


Why pay BT multiple times, when you can serve all the buildings from a single fast link? Your main link is presumably 330/30 or 330/50, and in future may be upgradeable to 1000/220.


Because it is simple! And as no-one offers 1000/220 over Openreach - except maybe spectrum I was thinking 80/20 connections as being enough for a pair of cottages.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Digging the central courtyard up would be horrible as it is full of main drains, surface water drains, and electric pipes, although only a gravel finish, the amount of under ground stuff would result i na fair bit of hand trenching.


What I don't quite follow is: why using BT to deliver fibre to the properties would be different in this regard than running your own fibre.

It isn't but makes more bandwidth available now and each cottage could have a fairly simply router. Simple is good.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
Don't run copper between buildings - it's dangerous. If there's a thunderstorm storm nearby, it can induce a large potential difference between buildings, which at best fries the electronics, and at worst will kill someone. If you *must* use copper between buildings then install a CAT5-specific lightening arrestor at each end, and have it properly earthed by an electrician. But really, fibre is the way to go.

All have same earths as from same main supply, but differences could occur. But yes agree, and we already have lightening arresters connected to earths at each end of the CAT5 for the nanobeams.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:
If you run your own fibre pair to each building or cluster of buildings, you can run these at 1Gbps cheaply, and upgrade in future to 10G or higher. Use single-mode fibre (OS2), which is the same as telcos use: essentially unlimited distance and speed, and it's actually cheaper than multi-mode which is not as good. You connect it to an 1000baseLX SFP at each end.

At each building you need a switch which has an SFP port. The Netgear GS110TP is very nice for this: it has 2 SFP and 8 copper, and the 8 copper all drive PoE so can be used to power your APs without power injectors (*). It can be monitored via SNMP, and has web and telnet CLI (**).

At the centre you want a switch or router with multiple SFP ports. I would go with Mikrotik CCR1016-12S-1S+ which is a router with 12 SFP ports and one SFP+ (10G) port. You can use a copper SFP to connect to your ONT. Weirdly, this will be almost the only copper link in your entire network smile

The nice thing about the Mikrotik being a proper multi-port router is that you can give each building its own subnet and route between them. This means that a network problem in one building (e.g. a broadcast storm) does not affect the other buildings. You can also apply ACLs, e.g. to stop a guest in one building from attempting to attack or spread viruses to guests in other buildings.

Ideally each building would have its own fibre pair back to the central router. Although the Netgear has two SFP ports, avoid the temptation to daisy-chain from one Netgear to another to another. Your network will end up really unreliable, and if there's a problem it will be almost impossible to debug.

However it's OK to join fibres together to make a path. For example, let's say you have a cluster of 4 buildings. You can run an 8-strand cable to building A, and 2-strand cables from A to B, A to C and A to D. Then you join them together at A, so physically you have a mini star around building A, but buildings A-D each have a separate fibre pair back to your server room.

In practice this isn't always possible, and one level of daisy chaining is OK. So if building A had a switch with four SFP ports, you could run run connections from switch A to switch B, switch A to switch C, and switch A to switch D. It's less optimal: all four buildings will be on the same subnet, and if switch A fails or loses power, buildings B-D will all lose service as well.

You will either need a friendly fibre contractor on hand, or you will need to get pre-made cables of the right length. Armoured cables can be directly buried. Even with ducts, you want to be careful of rats chewing the cables; after pulling cables plug the ducts with a cement plug.

If this stuff interests you, then you might want to look at this and this.

If this is not of interest, then for an easy life you install separate Openreach services to each property, but at N x £30 per month it will add up.


Will read up, and if the opportunity to rip the car park up presents itself I might look at it. We already have Ubiquiti US-8-150W with two SFP ports per cottage block, that power the nanoobeams, and APs for each cottage. Each block is a single physical structure. with internal Cat5 from switch to APs. So it would just be ducting, entry into buildings and lengths of fibre to sort. And a head head with multiple fibre.
I wonder how long it will be before we need it! 8k streaming?


Cheers Dave
Standard User abat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 07-Dec-18 10:12:55
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: F00tS0re] [link to this post]
 
Anyone know who "Allocator" is? Apparently Openreach are chasing them for my install (just had my weekly update).

Mike
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Fri 07-Dec-18 10:27:06
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by abat:
Anyone know who "Allocator" is? Apparently Openreach are chasing them for my install (just had my weekly update).


Maybe a contractor/sub-contractor ?

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear XR700 running DumaOS
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Fri 07-Dec-18 15:06:20
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: abat] [link to this post]
 
Works organiser in Openreach. I have had an 'underground allocator' as per 'Underground allocator has been chased to assign cabler to site asap to start TRRT. (Test Rod and Roping Tube)'
Standard User Alvintc
(newbie) Mon 10-Dec-18 16:51:12
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
I've requested my full survey.
Timeline:
2/10/18 - Requested desktop survey (Cerberus)
18/10/18 - Desktop survey £15,600.00 (ex. VAT)
23/10/18 - Full survey requested

Also, Howdy & all that jazz


10/12/2018 - Invoiced for Field Survey

Hopefully somethings moving!
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Mon 10-Dec-18 17:11:26
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: Alvintc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
I've requested my full survey.
Timeline:
2/10/18 - Requested desktop survey (Cerberus)
18/10/18 - Desktop survey £15,600.00 (ex. VAT)
23/10/18 - Full survey requested

Also, Howdy & all that jazz


10/12/2018 - Invoiced for Field Survey

Hopefully somethings moving!


I thought there was a temporary suspension of FTTPoD orders in place, ie no order is going beyond the desktop survey stage? Unless the suspension has been lifted by Openreach?

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/openre...

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Netgear AX12 (RAX120) Beta tester
Standard User NornIron91
(learned) Mon 10-Dec-18 17:51:00
Print Post

Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
In reply to a post by Alvintc:
I've requested my full survey.
Timeline:
2/10/18 - Requested desktop survey (Cerberus)
18/10/18 - Desktop survey £15,600.00 (ex. VAT)
23/10/18 - Full survey requested

Also, Howdy & all that jazz


10/12/2018 - Invoiced for Field Survey

Hopefully somethings moving!


I thought there was a temporary suspension of FTTPoD orders in place, ie no order is going beyond the desktop survey stage? Unless the suspension has been lifted by Openreach?

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/09/openre...


According to Spinstorm the suspension was lifted on 1st December, "as there is stop on new orders that is removed on 1st Dec "
Standard User F00tS0re
(newbie) Tue 11-Dec-18 09:08:18
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Re: FTTPoD desktop quotes and final prices


[re: NornIron91] [link to this post]
 
Yes, suspension lifted but think the main providers have a backlog of survey orders and are limited to what they can put through per month. Demand exceeding supply.
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