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Standard User burble
(member) Fri 16-Nov-18 16:37:20
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Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


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Don't know if I've missed something or this is just a rumour, but I was told today that Bedfordshire was to be the first area to trial removal of copper.
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 16-Nov-18 19:08:47
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: burble] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burble:
Don't know if I've missed something or this is just a rumour, but I was told today that Bedfordshire was to be the first area to trial removal of copper.
All of it? That's a pretty big trial.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User burble
(member) Fri 16-Nov-18 20:26:00
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
The two people who told me the story where from Bedford Borough, so it might be just there or even just their area of the county, they didn't have any details.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 16-Nov-18 21:03:36
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: burble] [link to this post]
 
Bedford is still a pretty big area for a pilot and with LLU in the area would need the LLU operators fully on board and a myriad of other things solved, e.g. copper based lift alarm lines

It is not uncommon for people to confusion the PSTN switch off due for 2025 with ripping out the copper, PSTN switch off will initially mean voice over broadband and in VDSL2 areas that would still involve copper.

Another option is people confusing the roll-out of full fibre as being removal of copper which is not normally the case.

More likely areas to do fun copper removal are small compact exchanges with no LLU operator.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sat 17-Nov-18 17:01:51
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
These are extremely difficult to find with enough of the demographics you want to trial. I remember the 'fun' in finding Deddington, which is still the only exchange to be (attempted) fully covered with FTTP.

OFCOM/Industry had such a long list of requirements that the choice was extremely limited and if my memory serves only 5 exchanges were available to chose from.

OR was never very successful at getting people to move to the Fibre offerings even though they were at the same cost as their existing service and ISP/CPs were also reluctant ( could use the word obstructive if we weren't banned from 'negative' comments) to allow their customers to be moved.

I would love to see how dense the final take-up is, but doubt I will ever know. You may be able to see how many are still on ADSL if you have the spare time and anyone runs tests.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sat 17-Nov-18 17:14:10
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: burble] [link to this post]
 
Burble

One area was trialled some years back, see my post replying to MrSaffron. you can see that all the postcodes are covered by fibre on the map at

https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

However I do not know how successful they were at getting the copper out.

It was in Oxfordshire.

However there are areas of Milton Keynes that are also very dense in FTTP coverage ( Monkton / Kents Hill) and could be ripe for a trial as well. It would be much harder due to the LLU presence but possible if OFCOM are now onside and more ready to deny the objections from LLU operators. PSTN would also disappear so it would trial the more to VOIP at the same time.

From my experience the time to start trialling PSTN switch off is now as it will take 3 plus years to sort out all the issues at a minimum.

Edited by kitcat (Sat 17-Nov-18 17:24:36)

Standard User candlerb
(member) Sat 17-Nov-18 17:51:20
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Areas which move to full fibre will have a FVA for every customer anyway. The PSTN switch-off will be more difficult for areas which remain with copper.

Some customers take voice-only service without broadband; some ISPs use the SMPF version of LLU, where the ISP has the DSLAM but OpenReach provide analogue dialtone. Solutions for all such scenarios need to be made.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 17-Nov-18 18:26:51
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
Add into this mix those who have no desire for broadband and don't want the hassle of FTTP run into the property and then want the power backup version but don't tick the standard vulnerable persons checkboxes

I've not looked at Deddington for a while but if I recall correctly there was still a little bit of ADSL i.e. not got FTTP to them, my guess would be rented property and landlord objecting to changes

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sat 17-Nov-18 19:19:03
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
candlerb
The reason to start trialling PSTN removal now is just that, you need to check you have a solution for every service including all those that run over a PSTN line but are nothing to do with voice!

There are 101 known scenarios and an a number of 'unknown' ones. The Trial will be needed to find the more common unknown ones and prove the known ones including all the back office system work to make migration automated and smooth. ( that can be the hardest thing to do!)

Only when you 'Force' a whole area will you learn all the scenarios you need to know to make it possible to turn the PSTN off.

Those areas that remain copper aren't that more difficult once you have all the scenarios worked out, VOIP will be (is) physical delivery mechanism agnostic.

This used to be my full time job, great 'fun' technically but horrendous managing expectations of OFCOM/CPs/Managers who wanted everything right first time whereas trials are about learning what right is and getting it right 2nd time !
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sat 17-Nov-18 19:26:16
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Re: Bedfordshire trials of full fibre removing copper.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Andrew
On the map all postcodes are showing as FTTP but I am aware of the likelihood of some individual properties objecting.

It was expected that this would occur when the trial was set up but I wondered if you had a recent view. Regulatory barriers and then retirement prevented me from following the implementation closely..
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