General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User John_smitheryooo
(newbie) Mon 11-Feb-19 17:27:15
Print Post

VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[link to this post]
 
Looking for a bit of advice here.

Just got a VDSL2 service at an address that the checker for the company (Phone Coop) predicted would have a speed between 35-40 mbits. Max speed 70ish.

Service was activated just after Christmas and the modem reports a speed of 28 MbPS - poor, thatís also the fastest itís done since it was put in, normally itís about 24. Sustained download speeds are worse, around 21-23 MbPS.

The router reports line attenuation as 6 numbers. I donít really understand what all the different numbers mean. I noticed most people get one figure for upload, one for download? I have 3 for each. *shoulder shrug*

They are (line attenuation):

Download:
18.1, 49.3, 76.2 DB

Upload:
4.2, 40.6, 58.2 DB

Noise margin:

Upload:
6.1 DB

Download:
6.2 DB

I found an attenuation to sync speed calculator for VDSL2, but due to my 3 figures for upload/download, I canít work out how/where to put all these numbers in, to calculate the sync speed based on these attenuation figures. Apparently they are called D1,D2, and D3, and are something to do with an 8C profile. I couldnít find a coherent answer on turning that into one number to do a sync speed calculation.

Screenshots of technical info from my router:

https://imgur.com/a/sdKMLsK

Secondly:

I plan on replacing the NTE5 box for a new one with a mk4 VDSL filter built in, and Iím hoping I can dredge some dregs of extra speed from a new twisted pair RJ45 to modem connector wire.

Unless a RJ11 twisted pair cable would be better? I know the VDSL port on the new Mk4 can take a RJ45. Iíve seen cables that are designed for this on amazon. Not sure where the biggest speed boost is to be had.

Any ideas?

Edited by John_smitheryooo (Mon 11-Feb-19 21:12:49)

Standard User candlerb
(committed) Mon 11-Feb-19 18:56:27
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: John_smitheryooo] [link to this post]
 
What does the BT wholesale checker say for your line, in terms of the expected max/min sync speeds? (Check with phone number, not postcode). https://btwholesale.com/adslchecker/

Sustained download speeds will always be about 5% below sync speed, because of TCP/IP overhead.

A twisted pair is better than straight, but if the router is 1-2 metres away from the socket it's unlikely to make any measurable difference.

RJ11 vs RJ45 won't make any difference. You're just using 2 pins within a 6-pin housing versus 2 pins within an 8-pin housing.
Standard User John_smitheryooo
(newbie) Mon 11-Feb-19 20:58:40
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I read somewhere that the RJ45 makes a difference because it activates the grounding shield on the twisted pair cable, whereas the RJ11 has no grounding pin. This makes sense.

I will be buying a 5 metre cable, so it will be further away. Itís currently 5 metres away on flat cable.

As for the speed test, I cannot run it because it requires flash and we do not own a PC/Mac. Very old tech, not for me.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User John_smitheryooo
(newbie) Mon 11-Feb-19 21:09:03
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: John_smitheryooo] [link to this post]
 
Okay, so I installed the MK4 VDSL face plate and Mk2 back box from BT (latest edition). Noise margin has gone from 6.1 DB up and down to 6.2 up and 6.4 down, apparently a higher Noise Margin (which is apparently SNR) is better, so Iím happy to have gotten some improvements on the line. Downloads are consistently faster, and upload speeds are noticeably improved. Not bad for £10. Weíre now on 29-30 meg download. So getting there.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 11-Feb-19 21:10:02
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: John_smitheryooo] [link to this post]
 
You can read lots of odd things on the internet, and rj45 does not possess a magic grounding ping

RJ45 is just the definition of a plug and socket pair, of which RJ11 is a member of the same family

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 11-Feb-19 21:11:07
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
At this point, as you say the key is what the BT wholesale checker says - its not unknown for ISP to get this wrong, also not unknown for the wholesale checker to be wrong, but first need to see the figures

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User John_smitheryooo
(newbie) Mon 11-Feb-19 21:23:17
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hope this helps:

https://imgur.com/a/e3hPZT3

I had confused the wholesale thing with the speed checker which needs flash. I can click the wholesale thing. Here it is!
Standard User bluenapalm
(newbie) Tue 12-Feb-19 00:52:53
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: John_smitheryooo] [link to this post]
 
What's the router manufacturer and model? Are you running latest firmware? I doubt it's your router - as 30mbit is reasonable. I'd expect lower speeds and packet loss/drops/disconnects if it was your modem.. 90% sure.

The 3 outputs of attenuation are the three bands of the VDSL frequency range in use. D1, D2 ,D3
I do not have a good example of what good levels are..

Ultimately, you're on the lower end of your estimated speed - which I'd find frustrating to see is the ISP was saying 70'ish.

Doing some research online, I see that D1 band falls over the ADSL2+ frequency, and those attenuation levels I am more familiar with. So, I'd recon D1 is a good indicator to use if your over all copper line is decent quality. Its about average.

Another thing I've learnt from personal experience and evidence.... DO NOT under estimate an ISP using [censored] old legacy equipment in the DSLAM/Exchange which is causing slower speeds and poor service even though your copper line is somewhat clean.

What's my evidence?
I work for an ISP and at one stage had a direct comparison of two service providers to my home.
Both FTTC, same annex, same NTE and settings etc..
Both services ran down the same cable (two twisted pairs inside).

One circuit would never sync above 51Mbit.. other circuit 78Mbit.

ref: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/atzioumi/jdsu/xDSL%2...
Standard User John_smitheryooo
(newbie) Tue 12-Feb-19 01:40:32
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: bluenapalm] [link to this post]
 
Itís a:
Technicolor TG588V V2.

I think the firmware is up to date but Iíll take a look. Itís not a great router, but realistically, itís not causing the speed issue ha. Iíll upgrade the cable to twisted pair and Iíll demand a DLM reset, hopefully thatíll push me up to 35. If I get it up to 35, Iíll live with it, until I can get a better ISP. I might also demand an engineer come out. Itís at the bottom of, maybe just below the bottom end of the impacted range, Iíve read itís reasonable to get an engineer out to look at it for that.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 12-Feb-19 10:22:24
Print Post

Re: VDSL attenuation and SLOW speeds


[re: John_smitheryooo] [link to this post]
 
The speeds you are seeing then are within the range expected, though towards the lower end of things.

So looks like the provider was perhaps a bit optimistic in its original estimates.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to