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Standard User marcusjclifford
(committed) Wed 20-Feb-19 11:31:28
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FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[link to this post]
 
Hi All,
With a FTTH connection we have a BT Openreach provided ONT where the GPON fiber connects.

In the past I've asked if this ONT could be replaced, but it seems it could not.

Recently though, a few products have come on the market which may change this. From Mikrotik and Ubnt. The UBNT UFibre Nano G seems to have been made to work on many other FTTH infrastructures. The reason it can do this is it seems GPON "security" works based on the serial number of the device being used. The NanoG can have its serial number changed by script. (See UBNT forums).

My question therefore is: Do BT use the standard GPON ONT Serial Number as the only security method to allow the ONT to sync with the Exchange OLT?

If I change my NanoG's serial number to match the Openreach Huawei ONT's one would it work?

I know about the ISP PPPOE connection that is layered on top, but not interested in that at this stage.

Thanks in advance.
Marcus

Various Connections - Aquiss ADSL / PlusNet ADSL2+ & FTTP / Zen FTTP
On Exchanges ESSTC / Swindon / Perth
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 20-Feb-19 12:36:42
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
First, surely it is Openreach kit? Secondly what difference would it make? Thirdly, who is going to fit it that is authorised to mess with the end of the fibre? Fourthly, where would it leave you if a fault or any other problem developed?

Fifthly, where would it leave you contractually and financially if the fitter made your end of the fibre useless?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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Standard User marcusjclifford
(committed) Wed 20-Feb-19 12:53:31
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I was specifically asking about the Openreach implementation of GPON in terms of serial number authentication, but will attempt to answer your questions...

1. No, I'd purchase the replacement ONT (I want a spare incase the BT provided on fails or for monitoring my connection as the BT provided ONT is totally locked down).

2. Don't understand the question - perhaps users may not want to use Huawei or wanted to actually see something about their FTTH connection?

3. It would be the homeowner etc - same as if we do anything with our home telephone system - as long as we are after the master socket back plate that is the demarcation point, although I know many people who have moved or replaced their master socket. The fibre terminates in a SC GPON connector that can be pulled out just like any plug/socket can.

4. If there was a fault the original device would need to be put back into place as the first step in fault fixing.

5. I would expect if someone damages the actual fibre or connector they would be liable to have it replaced (at their cost) by Openreach. I'm sure many cables have been damages over the years by pets / kids / hoovers etc...

Various Connections - Aquiss ADSL / PlusNet ADSL2+ & FTTP / Zen FTTP
On Exchanges ESSTC / Swindon / Perth


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Standard User dect
(member) Wed 20-Feb-19 13:11:59
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
Hi marcusjclifford

If you think you would not be breaking any T&C's by doing this, why don't you simply ask Openreach/ISP and see what they say and then report back to the forum.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Feb-19 13:21:11
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
Why would you want to change the Openreach CPE (ONT) when it does the job? In case you're unaware, doing so would put you in breach of your CP/Openreach's t&c's as the ONT is supposed to be left untouched.

But to answer your question & from a technical viewpoint, it would be pretty much impossible to use a third party ONT as the Openreach ONT won't be linked to their network just by its serial number - probably by its MAC, Product ID's and some other hidden info as well so I wouldn't bother going to all the trouble. You've probably got more chance of winning the lottery than 'spoofing' all that info onto a new ONT thus fooling Openreach into thinking you're still using their equipment.

This is on the back of my spare Openreach ONT and there's a few unique identifiers which are all likely be on their database & linked to your FTTP circuit:

https://i.postimg.cc/mD5j2f98/IMG-0359.jpg

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
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Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 20-Feb-19 13:28:01
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
Been discussed before. The opinion was it won't work.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4582968-or-on...

I'd be amazed if the serial number was all that was used for authentication.

Nothing wrong with the OpenReach ONT anyway.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 20-Feb-19 14:09:22
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
On your point 3 Openreach maintains and owns up to AND including the ONT. You can [censored] about with what is connected after this.

What are you hoping to monitor within the ONT ??

On point 4, so just leave the Openreach one insitu.

Standard User marcusjclifford
(committed) Wed 20-Feb-19 14:43:47
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
OK - thanks everyone for your replies.
There is lots of "should" and "may" but limited hard information.

On the UBNT forum there are multiple reports of successful usage of their ONT device on FTTH connections in other countries (Spain, Eastern Europe etc) so I was interested in the technical ability of it to work in the UK on the Openreach network.

It does seem that the default GPON implementation is authentication based on serial number alone, again I was wondering if BT follow this standard or not.

I just dislike having a) A single point of failure that I don't have a replacement for sitting ready to use and b) A device on my network that is a black box where I can get no information out of.

I suppose one day I may test this out, but the existing ONT is working as expected.

The next question though is a device like this on Amazon UK - being marketed for FTTH use - https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-WiFi-Router-Fibra-G... - From what I am reading this would never work therefore should it be allowed to be sold?

Various Connections - Aquiss ADSL / PlusNet ADSL2+ & FTTP / Zen FTTP
On Exchanges ESSTC / Swindon / Perth
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Feb-19 15:01:41
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: marcusjclifford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by marcusjclifford:
I just dislike having a) A single point of failure that I don't have a replacement for sitting ready to use and b) A device on my network that is a black box where I can get no information out of.


a) What makes you think your ONT is likely to go tits up anytime soon? If it did, couldn't you live without FTTP for a few days and use a backup (eg 4G) service instead? If you have a business where 24/7 connectivity is critical, why not take out a leased line where you can get a SLA fix time as low as 2hrs?

b) I'm not sure anything useful can be obtained from the ONT considering it just 'syncs' at the rate you have been provisoned at.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2
Standard User baby_frogmella
(knowledge is power) Wed 20-Feb-19 15:06:43
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Re: FTTH - ONT Authorisation - By Serial Number or more?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by marcusjclifford:
There is lots of "should" and "may" but limited hard information.

So why don't you ask Openreach and/or your CP for a definitive answer? Its clear no one on TBB has done it.

FluidOne FTTPoD 330/30 Mbps
Linksys EA9500v2

Edited by baby_frogmella (Wed 20-Feb-19 15:07:42)

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