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Standard User Mozzerr
(newbie) Sat 16-Jun-12 09:48:21
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Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE!?


[link to this post]
 
Hello all.

I hope someone (ideally from Orange higher technical support levels?) can help me on this...

Background:
I've been a Freeserve customer since day 1. Never had a problem with the service and always been a happy Orange customer!! Currently (well, until recently) on their Home Max 8Mb ADSL1 package with the Livebox and free second VoIP line 2.
A few weeks ago I happened to do a BT speed test and noticed that my local exchange has now been upgraded to 21CN. At last!
I had hoped that the line might just regrade itself but seeing as the modem was still syncing at its usual (rock solid) 7616Kbps - and not being sure if my original spec Livebox was even capable of ADSL2+ - I went out and bought a nice new Billion ADSL wireless router!
Unfortunately, the Billion still gave me the same sync speed despite the ability to hard set it to negotiate ADSL2+ (it auto falls back!)
Ok, I thought, perhaps I will need to phone Orange and have them re-grade the line... Oh dear! I won't bore you with the dialogue from the many phone calls I've had with their L1 technical support - except perhaps for the funniest of the comments I had from one chap: "Sir, please trust me when I tell you that the 4Mbps speed that "speedtest.net" is telling you is the very fastest that your line can achieve - and this is much faster than most people are getting over there so you should count yourself very lucky!"
Anyway, the upshot is that I stuck with it but at the point of requesting my MAC code I finally got to speak with someone on this planet (and in the UK) whom convinced me that regrading onto a new package (albeit at £5 per month more expensive and a new 18month contract) would see me with a shiny new "award winning" Brightbox modem, 17Mbps download speed etc. etc.

Well it didn't!!

Issue:
10 days in to my "line re-training" period and here we are... New Brightbox still happily syncs at the same old 7616Kbps and at ADSL1. From my admittedly un-savvy research on here I believe I have what's called a "stuck profile" ?... But Orange now insist this is not the case and my line is simply not capable of any quicker speeds! Can this be true? I don't think so! My neighbours on the same exchange get ADSL2+ speeds of 11Mbps plus!...

Anyway, I believe this forum is my last port of call before having to resort to jumping ship to another ISP. Must it really come to that? I've always been a happy Orange customer and would like to stay with them, but it's really looking to me like their incompetent support regime is going to lose them a previously happy and model customer!

You just can't help some companies, no matter how hard you try to do their jobs for them!

He's my Exchange and Brightbox modem ADSL line stats - in case it helps:-

Line Status: SHOWTIME
Link Type: Interleaved Path
Protocol: PPPoA
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Encapsulation: VC MUX
Operation Mode: G992.1(G.DMT)
Upstream: 448 (Kbps.)
Downstream: 7616 (Kbps.)
Noise Margin: 25.0db (upstream) 16.3db (downstream)
Line Attenuation: 11.0db (upstream) 14.0db (downstream)
Output Power: 11.9dBm (near end indicator) 19.7dBm (far end indicator)
Fast Path FEC Correction: NA (near end indicator) NA (far end indicator)
Interleaved Path FEC Correction: NA (near end indicator) 4 (far end indicator)

BT Wholesale ADSL Availability Checker

For Telephone Number 01630xxxxxx on Exchange MARKET DRAYTON

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 7Mbps and 8Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 17Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 10Mbps and 19.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1.5Mbps and downstream line speed of 17Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 10Mbps and 19.5Mbps.


I hope someone on here can assist? Would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, Moz.

Edited by Mozzerr (Sat 16-Jun-12 10:53:40)

Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jun-12 10:49:31
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
Hi, sorry to have to tell you, from your router stats you are still on 8 Meg ADSL Max and not 21CN ADSL2+ 20 Meg.

Line Status: SHOWTIME
Link Type: Interleaved Path
Operation Mode: G992.1(G.DMT)
Upstream: 448 (Kbps.)
Downstream: 7616 (Kbps.)
Noise Margin: 25.0db (upstream) 16.3db (downstream)
Line Attenuation: 11.0db (upstream) 14.0db (downstream)
Output Power: 11.9dBm (near end indicator) 19.7dBm (far end indicator)

Operation Mode: G992.1(G.DMT) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSL

What is your exchange? http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Orange WBC 20 Mbps. Sync 11864 kbps Downstream, 1189 kbps Upstream.
Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ wireless N 150 Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User Mozzerr
(newbie) Sat 16-Jun-12 10:52:44
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
Hi, Thanks for replying. I was just editing the first post with the exchange info as you replied!
Anyway, its MARKET DRAYTON - but see post 1.

Cheers, Moz.


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Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jun-12 11:31:17
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
Hi, are you sure your exchange has been fully completed the change over to 21CN WBC Status RFS date set : 30/06/2012

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNMD

And what’s this 18 months contract it should be 12 months contract with Orange, were you talking to an agent or something?

You need XRaySpeX to help you with this one when he comes along. wink

Orange WBC 20 Mbps. Sync 11864 kbps Downstream, 1189 kbps Upstream.
Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ wireless N 150 Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User eckiedoo
(learned) Sat 16-Jun-12 11:36:35
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
Morning Moz

If you go to this page; and key in the appropriate information, you will see that the Market Drayton Exchange is still being upgraded with an RFS date of 30th June 2012-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php


Status
ADSL enabled: June 25, 2003
DSL Max enabled: March 31, 2006
21CN WBC (Broadband) RFS date 30.06.12
21CN due : (PSTN) info N/A
FTTC Not available
SDSL enabled : Not Enabled
Broadband Access† Market 2
BTw Pricing Band Band E

I used the MD Golf Club Phone Number, so the Estimated Speeds further down the Results Page are unlikely to apply to your line.

============================

My Exchange is in a similar situation with the same RFS (? Released For Service ?) date.

I also have been with Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange since the early days, not quite Day 1.

About 2 weeks back, I contacted Orange on a different matter.

The "agent" said in passing that I should be getting "up to 17 Mbps"; and I had to point out to him that the RFS was the "end of June".

However, he did arrange for a Btight Box to be dispatched, which arrived a week later, Friday 8th June.

I have installed that, noting a slight improvement of of around 300 Kbps typically.

Then on Thursday, 14th June, Orange contacted me about upgrading to "17 Mbps", as from their statistics, my line was capable etc.

Again I had to remind both the agent and his manager that the Exhange RFS was "30.06.2012"; and that therefore an actual significant speed improvement was most unlikely before that date; and that it may not occur until a few days after.

Both eventually agreed that I was correct in my interpretation of the RFS etc.

==========================

To avoid having to change the WiFi configuration of some of the equipment connected through the old Live Box Router, after installing and setting up the new Bright Box and adding it as the main WiFi source, I connected the Live Box "Red"/Main Ethernet Port to one of the four subsidiary ports on the Bright Box.

This has proven to be very successful, the WiFi printer working fine through that old Router.

I have also tested the two portable PCs through both the old Live Box and the new Bright Box, without any problems.

Thus my extended family who had set up various devices on the old Router WiFi, can continue to use them without alteration.

It also opens up the possibility of re-siting one or both Routers, to give better WiFi coverage generally.
Standard User Mozzerr
(newbie) Sat 16-Jun-12 12:22:58
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to both eckiedoo and E7R for the replies...

But I beg to differ and perhaps suggest that both of the checkers that you have each suggested are just slow to be updated? Samknows, particularly, has been quoted elsewhere as being slow to update.

The BT Wholesale ADSL checker at:-

https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/B...

.. clearly states that "...your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 17Mbps..."

Second, the Orange "agent" at the disconnections department was able to establish that the exchange has indeed already been updated - despite the Exchange RFS date - which, again I believe can be inaccurate.

Finally, if further proof is needed, my neighbour two doors down has recently migrated to Orange broadband and his Brightbox happily syncs at around 11Mbps - I know, because I set it all up for him! I'm not a ADSL "expert" by any stretch, but I've worked in IT for 20 years so I do know enough to get by!

Thanks again for the replies so far though.

Moz.
Standard User eckiedoo
(learned) Sat 16-Jun-12 15:47:33
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
Agreed that the updates to those sites can be slow/delayed etc.

However, the ADSL Availability Checker does say "support" rather than "supplied" or similar.

And that qualifier applies to all of the three ADSL Speed Ranges given-

"up to 2Mbps"

"range between 7Mbps and 8Mbps"

"range between 10Mbps and 19Mbps"

Why mention the others?

Possibly it would be useful if you were to carry out that "ADSL Checker" test again on your neighbour's already upgraded line, it would help fill in the picture.

Nowhere does it state the speed that the line is "supplied" with at the instant.


That is, it seems our lines would have to be tranferred in some manner from the older "up to 8 Mbps" equipment to the new "up to 17 Mbps" system.

I don't know whether that has to be done physically during a visit to the Exchange; or can be done remotely; but it does imply some sort of delay, which would include simple order processing etc.

My experience to date suggests that for my local Exchange, such changes tend to take place on a Thursday.

I do recollect that my first BB connection was established in 2004 at "tp to 2Mbps"; and the upgrade to "up to 8 Mbps" in 2006 occurred without any intervention or request from me. It simply "happened".

I have also been unable to establish what the maximum operational speed of the old Livebox is, although during many tests over the years, I have seen transitory readings of 15Mbps and occasionally 25Mbps, as the tests proceeded.

Similarly, I had 30 years IT and Networking experience, Current Loop, RS232, Ethernet (including Vampire Taps), RJ11 etc (apart from mainly programming etc); but like yourself, have yet to get fully to grips with ADSL etc.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 16-Jun-12 20:16:45
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
You need XRaySpeX to help you with this one when he comes along. wink
Thanks grin but I'm not sure there is much I can add that y'all have not already said.

Except on the Q of whether exchange has been WBC'ed. Despite SamKnows saying it won't be till 30 June, the BT Availability Checker does say ADSL2+ is currently supported, using exactly the same phraseology as ADSL Max which we know is available. Had ADSL2+ not been available the Availability Checker would not have listed it.

The fact is you are still on ADSL Max while being sold an ADSL2+ product, on which your line is capable of 21 Meg. There is also the Q of the contract length which should be 12 m. What package are you said to be on and how much are you paying? Have a look at Your Member's Account on their website.

I have no doubt, from my dealings with them, that many of their 1st line support are liars and have no ADSL knowledge. You need your case escalated to their Fault Mgt Team, who are mostly good. Failing that you need to lodge a formal written complaint under their Complaints Procedure.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 16-Jun-12 20:25:03)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 16-Jun-12 20:40:48
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
That is, it seems our lines would have to be transferred in some manner from the older "up to 8 Mbps" equipment to the new "up to 17 Mbps" system.
Yes, but don't expect it to happen auto; you need to take out a new contract.

It can be done by suitable Orange staff throwing a "switch" at their desk when you agree a new contract.
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
I do recollect that my first BB connection was established in 2004 at "up to 2Mbps"; and the upgrade to "up to 8 Mbps" in 2006 occurred without any intervention or request from me. It simply "happened".
Not to me going thro' a similar transition. I had to take out new contracts albeit at cheaper fees with 1 to 3 months free, as I was still on higher legacy fees.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User budcharm
(newbie) Sat 16-Jun-12 21:51:16
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Re: Don't want to leave Orange (yes, really!) But NO CHOICE


[re: Mozzerr] [link to this post]
 
Hi I am also a long term Freeserve to Orange survivor with similar thoughts. Was going to wait until fibre optic but having migrated second phone line to BT rest will follow shortly. Shame.
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