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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Jul-12 17:52:13
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Orange Broadband Network Area


[link to this post]
 
I'd like to pin down what constitutes Orange Broadband network areas, in the lack of any actual definition from Orange.

Who is being be charged an extra amount a month, currently £10 but could be less as a legacy customer, for living in a non-Orange Broadband network area?

Please state exchange and whether you were on LLU, or not, prior to the handover to BTw.

Note: I'm not referring to any extra amount charged for not being an Orange mobile customer.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User vf12vf
(learned) Thu 19-Jul-12 08:09:14
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SDMDDLT

i currently pay £12.26 a month for broadband only....no call packages or line rental

i was on LLU until moved over

Edited by vf12vf (Thu 19-Jul-12 08:10:05)

Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 19-Jul-12 10:55:37
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Previously my exchange was Market 2 and I was charged for Orange home broadband the “non-Orange broadband network area” price an additional £10 per month, plus additional £5 per month for not having Orange contract mobile phone.

After the Orange changeover from LLU to WBC my exchange is changed to Market 3 and I am charged for Orange home broadband the “living in an Orange network area” price.

To me this indicates the “Orange home broadband network area” is Market 3 exchange areas, which according to Orange covers 85% of all UK homes.

https://broadband.orange.co.uk/home
unlimited home broadband for just £5 a month, inclusive evening and weekend UK landline calls
Prices quoted are for customers on Orange pay monthly and pay as you go mobile plans living in an Orange broadband network area, which covers 85% of all UK homes. For non-Orange customers, an additional £5 a month will be charged. Orange customers living in non-Orange broadband network areas will be charged an additional £10 a month. Non-Orange customers living in a non-Orange broadband network area will be charged an additional £15 a month.
My exchange http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/CMKNO

My Broadband Speed Test
Orange WBC 20 Mbps. Sync 11864 kbps Downstream, 1189 kbps Upstream.
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router

Edited by E7er (Thu 19-Jul-12 14:01:18)


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Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 20-Jul-12 09:38:07
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: vf12vf] [link to this post]
 
There is no LLU on that exchange though. ^^

-

Xilo.net Office 21CN
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Jul-12 16:07:42
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
Yes, and when Orange LLU was there, there was only one.

So, I'm surprised it was ever Market 2.

Another hint that Orange Areas are those that had Orange LLU.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Sat 21-Jul-12 09:12:02
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Another hint that Orange Areas are those that had Orange LLU.
Not so! If the exchange had Orange LLU, it does not indicate it’s an “Orange broadband network area” when the exchange is Market 2 or Market 1.

My Broadband Speed Test
Orange WBC 20 Mbps. Sync 11864 kbps Downstream, 1189 kbps Upstream.
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 19-Jan-13 00:17:02
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Orange Broadband Network Area = Market 2 or 3


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I have carried out an empirical study of the standard prices Orange/EE charge for their lowest, Unlimited ADSL + Off-Peak Calls, package to new non-mobile customers over 10 random exchanges spanning 3 Markets x 20CN/21CN x LLU presence or not. Not unexpectedly, I could not find any Market 3 w/out LLU, but it could be possible due to withdrawal of all LLU operators since the last OFCOM classification. So if anyone is aware of any, please let me know.

My findings were (Exchanges in order: 20CN/No LLU, 20CN/LLU, 21CN/No LLU, 21CN/LLU, where applicable):
  • Market 1: £20 pm at Exchanges WWCHIS, THKC, ESKGH, BRECHIN
  • Market 2: £10 pm at Exchanges EAWLM, SDHNFLD, NETI, EMRADCL
  • Market 3: £10 pm at Exchanges NEDB, THRG
Note: EE Mobile customers would pay £5 pm less.

Note 2: I've just notice that EE's £30 Welcome Credit Offer ends November 30th 2012 whilst I was drafting this. LOL!

The other exchanges mentioned in this thread conform to this pattern.

So it would certainly seem that EE's Service Availability Area (BB Network Area) consists of Market 2 + 3 exchanges. Much like Plusnet, the only other ISP who uses Market classifications smile!

Of course, this might not apply to existing customers, particularly those who were with Orange in its LLU days, as we have heard tales of not being auto upgraded when an exchange went WBC and being told to take out a new contract if they wanted to go ADSL2+.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 19-Jan-13 00:49:26
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
If the exchange had Orange LLU, it does not indicate it’s an “Orange broadband network area” when the exchange is Market 2 or Market 1.
I'm not sure what that means w.r.t. timing.

When Orange did LLU, Orange network area was those exchanges where they had LLU. They had no interest in BT's network or the Markets, other than contributing towards the count. I've always paid the lower rate, even when my exchange was 20CN. If you paid otherwise when on LLU, then you were done or it is some quirk of timing of changes at your exchange.

Since Orange ceased LLU, certainly today, Orange network area is the Market 2 & 3 exchanges, as I show above.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 19-Jan-13 08:47:57
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Yes, and when Orange LLU was there, there was only one.

So, I'm surprised it was ever Market 2.
No surprise there at all.

The criterion was the number of suppliers, not the number of LLU. So BT Wholesale was and is a supplier, so BTW + Orange = at least M2 as at December 2010. (Barring any quirk in the actual OfCom listing).
Another hint that Orange Areas are those that had Orange LLU.
?
I thought that was established very early on?
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Since Orange ceased LLU, certainly today, Orange network area is the Market 2 & 3 exchanges, as I show above.
I'm not sure that sample is definitive. From what I've observed, but not having made any records, Orange network area remains as being those where it had an LLU presence - which de facto included some but maybe not all M2 and M3.

The check that needs to be made is on an M2 and an M3 exchange where Orange did not have an LLU presence. Perhaps that is what you have done, but you haven't indicated so.

Edit - BTW WBC-enablement is also irrelevant.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 19-Jan-13 08:58:49)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 19-Jan-13 08:57:06
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Re: Orange Broadband Network Area


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Another hint that Orange Areas are those that had Orange LLU.
Not so! If the exchange had Orange LLU, it does not indicate it’s an “Orange broadband network area” when the exchange is Market 2 or Market 1.
I'm a bit confused at what you say there. I assume you have taken on board the correction to your apparent misunderstanding of what determines Market 2 and Market 3 status.

The timing of Orange's LLU presence is crucial. If it began later than the OfCom December list, it could still be an Orange network area, quite independently of Market Classification.

In the absence of any definitive statement from Orange/EE, XRaySpeX's research is the only valid approach to determining the criteria. The fact that I'm uncertain of his conclusions to date, as per my reply to him a few minutes ago, does not change that.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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