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Standard User radman_bob
(newbie) Thu 04-Apr-13 13:34:32
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Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

I used to have a Livebox with the second line service and ADSL Max. When Orange have discontinued that service, I agreed to pay them a bit more money to upgrade to an ADSL2+ service and daytime/evening calls.

However, since the regrade on the 8th March, the speed I sync with the exchange has gone down from 7200kbps (the evening before the upgrade - and pretty static for the last three years), to 5195kbps now.

I've lost 2 megabits by upgrading to ADSL2+.

I tried calling Orange technical support, but they just claimed that the speed I get is within the range acceptable for my line. Which is no help at all - I'm paying more money for a worse service!

My SNR margin on the Livebox used to be pretty static at 6, but according to the Brightbox, I now have a noise margin of 10.2.

Now, I must admit, I did end up disconnecting the router 3-4 times during the first few days of the stabilisation period, so my guess is that this might have affected things.

My questions are:

1. Will my SNR go back down over time, giving me a faster connection again?
2. If so, how long is it likely to take?
3. Is it possible for Orange to restart the stabilisation period again? Orange tech support tell me not, but I've read on forums that this is possible.
4. Orange tech support tell me there's nothing they can do - But is it possible that I would be better off going back to ADSL Max? Is this possible? If I set my Brigthbox to connect using "ADSL", will this help things?
5. My connection used to be interleaved, but now it is "Fast Path". Should I ask for my line to be set back to interleaved, or is this handled automatically on ADSL2+?

According to the Brightbox, my line stats are:

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1080 (Kbps.)
Downstream 5195 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.9 dB 10.2 dB
Line Attenuation 26.9 dB 48.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.7 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 76 86
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 142 54
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 65 63
Statistics
Received Cells 2447330
Transmitted Cells 2045841

Thanks for your help!

Edited by radman_bob (Thu 04-Apr-13 13:38:08)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 04-Apr-13 14:26:29
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: radman_bob] [link to this post]
 
Your stats are reasonable for the length of your line. The only thing wrong is the Down NM is slightly high.

You are unlikely to get 7.2 Meg on ADSL1 on that line. Did you notice what the Down Attenuation was with the Livebox when you did? Is it worth putting the Livebox back in and seeing what it reports?

Your Qs:
  1. Possibly, give it time.
  2. Maybe 10 days.
  3. Yes, but I don't think it will make any diff.
  4. Worth a try setting ADSL Mode = G.DMT, but you are on borderline of it making any diff.
  5. Auto set by DLM. Fast Path shows it finds your line stable.


1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User radman_bob
(newbie) Thu 04-Apr-13 14:36:57
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I'll try plugging in the Livebox in a few minutes, to see what happens and will let you know.

I took a screenshot of my Livebox the evening before the regrade, it showed:

Noise margin: 6.1
Attenuation: 49.0
Attainable download rate: 7200
ADSL Status: Connected

Downstream Upstream
Rate kbps: 6688 448

I always assumed that the downstream and upstream rates at the bottom were the rates set by my BRAS profile, and that the 7200 was the rate that I actually connected ot the exchange at? So, iin reality, my actual rate was 6688? Is my thinking right?

Just after my regrade, before I had chance to plug the Brightbox in, my stats from the Livebox were:

attenuation: 46
noise margin 6.2
attainable download rate: 7175

Downstream Upstream
Rate kbps: 7141 888

Plugging in the Brightbox caused these to instantly drop by about 500kbps, then further drops have occured over the last few weeks.


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Standard User radman_bob
(newbie) Thu 04-Apr-13 15:40:42
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: radman_bob] [link to this post]
 
Right, I've plugged my Livebox in and can immediately see some improvement:

ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009c1.d17d
Connection mode : ADSL2+
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 9.2
Attenuation (dB) : 46.5
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 5951
ADSL status : Connected [0]

Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 5951 1083

Noise margin still higher than before, but hopefully that will change.

I ran a BT Speedtest with the Livebox, then a few minutes later on the Brightbox.

the results were:

Brightbox

Download speed achieved during the test was - 4.42 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.58 Mbps

Livebox

Download speed achieved during the test was - 5.1 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 5.25 Mbps

So, the livebox connects fater than the Brightbox.

Any ideas what this means though?

Are some modem/routers better at getting fast speeds than others then?

Is it likely that the Livebox is better on slightly poorer lines?

Should I stick with the Livebox?

Adam.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 04-Apr-13 15:50:35
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: radman_bob] [link to this post]
 
Slight mistake.

The Downstream Upstream Rate kbps: 6688 448 figures are the rate you were connected to the exchange at. The Attainable rate, was a theoretical projection based on their being a little bit of spare noise margin.

Looks like DLM has seen the reboots/resyncs and increased margin costing you the speed. If the line is stable you may well get the speed back in time.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 04-Apr-13 16:10:39
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: radman_bob] [link to this post]
 
Those Livebox stats are interesting!

Normally when you upgrade from ADSL Max to ADSL2+ the Down Attenuation increases by about 3dB, but yours went down by 3dB. I take that to mean the 21CN kit in exchange has less loss than the 20CN kit.

The 1st result for ADSL Max is almost too good to be true. I'd expect the Down Sync to be 5.1 Meg. It'll be worthwhile comparing Livebox stats now within mins of Brightbox's.

Ignore the "Attainable download rate"; it's a theoretical max with no DLM or NM. The "Rate" is the sync speed.

Sync speeds are not set by BRAS profiles, but the other way round. IP Profile is determined by sync speed and on WBC ADSL2+ it is instantly 88.2% of Sync.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 04-Apr-13 22:37:05
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: radman_bob] [link to this post]
 
Use the Bright Box router it’s a really good router. Your line Upstream Rate looks good, your Downstream Rate will improve if you let the exchange Multi-service access Node (MSAN) adjust your connection. wink

You should be on Interleaved Path.
Configure the router Operation Mode to Automatic.
For 21CN WBC set the router MTU: 1500

My Bright Box router stats was Downstream Rate 9725 kbps, Upstream Rate 1169 kbps, with Operation Mode set to ADSL2+. frown
I changed the Operation Mode to Automatic and it has gradually increased the speed to Downstream Rate 13365 Kbps, Upstream Rate 1249 Kbps. Todays Stats! smile

ADSL STATUS
This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.
Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream .... 1249 (Kbps.)
Downstream 13365 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin ...... 6.1 dB 5.9 dB
Line Attenuation 15.4 dB 29.0 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.4 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 40286 0
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 273 0
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 7033 0
Error Seconds 9 0
Statistics
Received Cells 118598
Transmitted Cells 20153
-------------------------

Configure your EE/Orange/T-Mobile home broadband Bright Box wireless router settings for 21CN WBC ADSL2+ as below…

BOADBAND SETTINGS
This page provides advanced settings to connect your EE Broadband service

Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband Username:
Broadband Password:

Protocol: PPPoA
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Encapsulation: VC MUX
Internet IP Address: Dynamic
IP Address: 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask: 0.0.0.0
DNS IP Address: Manual
Primary DNS: 193.36.79.101
Secondary DNS: 193.36.79.100
Connection Type: Always Connected
Idle Time: 0 (minutes)
Authentication Protocol: CHAP
MTU (576~1500): 1500

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps. Sync 13377 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router

Edited by E7er (Thu 04-Apr-13 23:13:04)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 04-Apr-13 23:46:54
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Re: Regrade to ADSL2+, now slower - Tech support no help


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
You should be on Interleaved Path. Why "should"? It's up to the DLM and there is nowt OP can do about it.
Configure the router Operation Mode to Automatic. It already is! Read OP's stats!
I don't understand why you always attribute control of the BB parameters to a MSAN. There's not much a multiplexer can do for them; it's the DLM software that has the control of them. It's only another technicality to confuse the OP.

You also infer a unrelated cause and effect. Changing Mode from ADSL2+ to Auto will not in itself affect the sync speeds, unless the line is so long as to require a downgrading of Mode, which yours doesn't.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 04-Apr-13 23:53:26)

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