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Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 03-Apr-15 03:30:06
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I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[link to this post]
 
Had extremely poor performance since mid evening 9pm this evening (Thursday 2-3-2015) and into the early hours.

I was getting a download of 0.03Mbps around that time. Resetting the router (EE branded BrightBox1) had little effect and download speeds of 2, 1.6 and 1.2 were achieved over the following few hours as I reset a few times. I even changed the default DNS thinking that because nothing was happening when I clicked a link the servers were down. The DNS is not the problem as the response and download speed is poor regardless of the change.

During this period the sync speed has been between 5.5-6Mbps and IP Profile has not been below 4.9Mbps, according to the BT wholesale speed tester. But the 2, 1.6 and 1.2Mbps download recorded by the speed tester are well below the 4.9Mbps I should have had. Maybe worth noting that at 0.03Mbps the ping time on the server was 226ms and after a reset it was about 30-40ms. I can't watch any online content and the family can't rent any content off EETV apps given the poor speeds we are getting.

My old Orange branded BrightBox managed to hold the line at 5.9-6Mbps. The EE BrightBox has only managed 5Mbps tops until recently when it achieved 5.5 and today 6Mbps for the first time, but it clearly doesn't work, not sure why. When I visit the EE site it tells me I can currently get 8Mb on my line which is an absolute joke, I've never had a sync above 6.5 that worked while I've been with EE and that 6.5 was with a Netgear router, the Bright Box really is pants.

I've got a lot of errors on the upload and stats I have on record over the last few years show similar but this time it seems chronic. Can problems/errors on the upload cause problems on the download?

I contacted EE customer services back in December when my connection suffered similar drops in speed and to my amazement when I described the history of problems over the years (which I have posted on ThinkBroadband in the past) he arranged for an engineer (BT openreach) to come out and said he would phone back giving a date and time. He never did phone back and as for the engineer... My line has habit of behaving itself for a while before it all starts again and guess what when the engineer turned up. There was nothing wrong at the point he arrived. He didn't have the correct tools, someone else apparently had his van and his tools were missing, so he had to connect to the wires directly. He decided to replace the front of my ageing NTE5 box with a part he found amongst his tools.

The result is yet again a major fail for EE customer services and I can no longer use my faceplate filter as the engineer cross threaded the new socket front with non-standard screws. I've been limited to a 4.5Mbps ADSL2 service during the month of March, it has only returned to ADSL2+ in the last week. BT Openreach engineers seem to have been ever present in the surrounding streets visiting properties in my street and the next streets for the last few weeks.

I contacted EE customer services again in January when the same problem (I've had for years) reared it's head again. This time a foreign call centre member of staff (popular name script monkey) said we will solve your problem and we will call you back. So I'm waiting for yet another call back (months later) and guess what the problem is here again. Now what do I do as EE customer services clearly doesn't give a damn?

EE customer services is shocking and not fit for purpose as far as I'm concerned.

I've had it suggested that Fibre would solve this but I'm not convinced. If they show little to no interest in solving the problem after all these years, what chance have I got giving them another £10 a month? It won't make a difference, I won't take up Fibre unless they sort out my line problem or the very least give an explanation of why it is happening.

How to sort out a problem that has gone on for years and has received little to no acknowledgement that it exists, is intermittent and does not conveniently occur when I phone customer services and despite me having stats on the problem EE are just not interested?

Add to this I have reported numerous times that my EETV box crashes when paused or watching HDTV but no they don't care and I get passed over to the overseas call centre people as if it is a broadband problem that can be solved with a script, totally bypassing the issue.

I seriously need help as this is on going and is getting worse, I come home from work on a daily basis not knowing if I can use the internet or if I have a limited service.

Speed test...
BT Wholesale speedtest 21:33pm Download 0.03Mbps, Upload 0.82Mbps, ping 226.25ms, Profile (error uploading results)
Turned router off/on again.
BT Wholesale speedtest 21:58pm, Download 2.03Mbps, Upload 0.92Mbps, ping 32.88ms, Profile 4.9Mbps
BT Wholesale speedtest 22:03pm, Download 1.6Mbps, Upload 0.91Mbps, ping 40.00ms
Restarted router through router reset option.
BT Wholesale speedtest 22:43pm, Download 1.21bps, Upload 0.92Mbps, ping 55.00ms, Profile 4.9Mbps
The range in all cases has been quoted as 2Mbps-7.15Mbps

Here are my current router stats...
Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 00:02:14
Downstream Rate 5.55 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.09 Mbps

Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1092 (Kbps)
Downstream 5554 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.3 (dB) 2.8 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.7 (dB) 47.5 (dB)

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 278921 0
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 5902
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 0 2277
Error Seconds 142 0
Statistics
Received Data 70095 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 48313 (Kbits)

Edited by Kail (Fri 03-Apr-15 03:50:39)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 03-Apr-15 05:04:54
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
You never mentioned in all that whether that speedtest is wired or wireless. It can only be the latter. Switch to Ethernet and you'll get the speeds commensurate with your sync. The issue is within your house not outside.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Fri 03-Apr-15 10:00:29
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
Following up on XRaySpex's recommendation, make sure that the Ethernet Cable has all 8 pins connected.

The Ethernet Cables supplied by EE/Orange tend to be four-wire only.

Readily distinguished by looking carefully at the transparent connectors.

-----------------

If as suggested the problem is within your house internal wiring or from the local Distribution Box (PCP), then the QLT, (Quiet Line Test) may help improve things, and is also particularly relevant to FTTC/VDSL, should you upgrade.


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Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 03-Apr-15 12:52:49
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies.

I never use wireless unless i'm on a tablet or the like. My desktop which I use most of the time is wired, there is nothing wrong with the physical connection. The router has had it's filter changed I don't know how many times so the filters are not the problem and is currently in the test socket, as per instruction from EE customer services. They were supposed to call back in January/December after running tests but never have.

The service has returned to normal this morning...BT Wholesale speedtest 12:24pm, Download 4.96Mbps, Upload 0.92Mbps, ping 37.50ms, Profile 4.97Mbps, range 2-7.15Mbps. The router has not resynced since it's last change, normal service has simply returned.

For years this type of outage has happened at my current property usually once every month or if I'm lucky two months. Since the introduction of Fibre in the town last year the problem is getting worse and more often to the point we can't reliably use online streaming services.

EE customer services just keep doing the same thing, replace filter, put it in the test socket, we'll call you back... Which is not helping. The one time they send an engineer out the look at the line he finds nothing, I've done quiet line tests and get noise on the line once in a blue moon, like I've said it has in the past run a month or two without any trouble. That time frame is now a few weeks at most, sometimes just a few days. The engineer came during one of the quiet times and of course heard nothing, so did nothing except ruin my socket.

Stats (sync is different from earlier as It was restarted during the speed drops last night)...
Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 13:53:19
Downstream Rate 5.63 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.08 Mbps
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1080 (Kbps)
Downstream 5635 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.4 (dB) 4.1 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.8 (dB) 47.5 (dB)

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.7 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 83666487 0
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 2054716
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 122 812397
Error Seconds 42297 95
Statistics
Received Data 8986339 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 798098 (Kbits)
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 03-Apr-15 15:17:23
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
There's nowt wrong with your sync. So you were losing speed between the LAN port of your router and your PC. No wonder eng found nowt as there is no fault before the router.

However I don't like the look of:
In reply to a post by Kail:
Error Seconds 42297 95
That is far too high for 14 hours. Did you reboot the router or just disconnect it? It could mean that your throughput is being hit by retransmissions of packets.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 03-Apr-15 15:27:24
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
The Ethernet Cables supplied by EE/Orange tend to be four-wire only.
You're right! I never knew that. The cable on my main PC has only 4 pins but I've never had reduced speeds cuz of it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User flippery
(committed) Fri 03-Apr-15 15:59:08
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
10/100 LAN only requires 2 pairs connected.
The low SNR down will not help with stability or errors. Increasing to 6 may.
Appears their is some correlation between new Fibre installs and ADSL problems. Although not everyone agrees.
I thought sync rate was only to exchange. Throughput could vary due to problems further up line, including ISP capacity.
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Fri 03-Apr-15 17:14:31
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
When I changed over from 4 wire to 8 wire, there was a slight increase in speed - not huge; but large enough to be noticeable, in test measurements - suggesting that for the small cost, it was worth doing.

Particularly as there is a tendency to leave the PC Ethernet cable in situ when upgrading etc - so beneficial over the years to come.
Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 03-Apr-15 23:02:23
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
There does not appear to be anything wrong with the LAN connections. In fact I ran a test at the time and transferred some large files across the network from two wired computers and then a wireless laptop to wired desktop there were no performance issues. Meanwhile any computer, tablet, etc. connected to the LAN that tried to connect to the net hit the 0.03Mbps bottleneck and often failed to download anything. This is why I am sure the problem is router/internet related.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
That is far too high for 14 hours. Did you reboot the router or just disconnect it? It could mean that your throughput is being hit by retransmissions of packets.
Those stats are after a reboot which means it has added the current stats to what went before, I've got 4 lots of stats from various stages...

@20:40pm I noticed problems and checked the connection, it had resynced so the stats are not just the 5hour period stated, stats where...

Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 05:00:43
Downstream Rate 6.00 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.08 Mbps
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1077 (Kbps)
Downstream 5995 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.1 (dB) 1.8 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.8 (dB) 47.5 (dB)
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 32669399 1173
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 1749916
Loss of Signal Defect 2 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 124 818465
Error Seconds 17316 608
Statistics
Received Data 796512 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 103334 (Kbits)

I decided to restart the router and got this...

Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 00:02:14
Downstream Rate 5.55 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.09 Mbps
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1092 (Kbps)
Downstream 5554 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.3 (dB) 2.8 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.7 (dB) 47.5 (dB)
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 278921 0
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 5902
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 0 2277
Error Seconds 142 0
Statistics
Received Data 70095 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 48313 (Kbits)

@12:54am after numerous speed tests which I posted previously I rebooted it and I gave up on it. I was offered the 3rd test on the BT speedtester where you change your log-in details. I've done that before successfully and reported the results to EE but they don't seem very interested in it. This time the 3rd test did not even work, it came up with nothing at all, it was like I had no connection. I rechecked the details and they were correct, but I got nothing. Before I went to bed in the early hours I got this from an off/on restart...

Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 02:30:31
Downstream Rate 5.63 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.08 Mbps
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1080 (Kbps)
Downstream 5635 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.1 (dB) 2.5 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.8 (dB) 47.5 (dB)
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.7 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 15738057 0
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 707516
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 0 283842
Error Seconds 8376 0
Statistics
Received Data 496640 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 62180 (Kbits)

Then next day I came to check on it, it had not resynced and service had returned to normal as if nothing had happened, these stats follow on from the previous...

Internet
Broadband Type ADSL
Broadband State Connected
Internet State Connected
Time Connected 13:53:19
Downstream Rate 5.63 Mbps
Upstream Rate 1.08 Mbps
Status
Configured Current
Line Status -- UP
Link Type -- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G.992.5 (ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Upstream 1080 (Kbps)
Downstream 5635 (Kbps)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.4 (dB) 4.1 (dB)
Line Attenuation 24.8 (dB) 47.5 (dB)
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.7 (dBm) 0.0 (dBm)
Fast Path FEC Correction -- --
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 83666487 0
Fast Path CRC Error -- --
Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 2054716
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --
Interleaved Path HEC Error 122 812397
Error Seconds 42297 95
Statistics
Received Data 8986339 (Kbits)
Transmitted Data 798098 (Kbits)

Hope this helps.

The above is typical of what keeps happening and sometimes we can have a reduced service for several days. Unfortunately for me I have had work or other important commitments and I've been unable to sit talking to EE customer support for an hour or more to get through their scripted actions of replacing wires and filters, rebooting, factory reset actions that do nothing to solve the problem. I've had this problem with 3 different EE routers, the orignal Orange Bright Box, current EE Bright Box and the alternative Orange router the Netgear DGN2000. When the SNR bottomed out it managed to hold on to the line when the others dropped it. I've used over a dozen filters and face plates along with different wiring over the years.
Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 03-Apr-15 23:20:59
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Re: I thought it was a major outage but maybe not?


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by flippery:
The low SNR down will not help with stability or errors. Increasing to 6 may.
I've looked at getting another router like one of the Billion 7800 range which support changing the SNR from the router end to see if I can combat the problem as my line does go very low. The Orange Netgear DGN2000 only dropped the line when these problems I'm suffering from reared their head. It held the line when the SNR hit 0, the Bright Box routers don't seem to be able to do that.

In reply to a post by flippery:
Appears their is some correlation between new Fibre installs and ADSL problems. Although not everyone agrees.
If Fibre impacts on ADSL then the uptake maybe explains why I have had a lot more problems recently. I've actually spent most of the last month on ADSL2 with it returning to ADSL2+ only recently.

I've suffered these problems long before Fibre came on the scene. They have got a lot worse since last year when they made Fibre available. If I check, Fibre is available on my cabinet 1 day then not the next. If you see it you've got to jump on it because it will not be available for a while. Then it becomes available for a day or so again then it is gone for a week. The take up is obviously fast and they are in and out of the cabinet on a daily basis, would not be surprised if they are disturbing the wiring causing more problems but I'm not sure that is a clear or sound explanation.
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