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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 02-Jan-18 18:30:46
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No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[link to this post]
 
Credit card always takes a bit of a hit at Christmas, so I decided to purchase my new rig through PayPalís buy now pay later scheme (4 months) and save a fair few quid in credit card interest, and with the January sales.

Unfortunately my PayPal account has survived a fraudulent credit application, identity theft if you like. I say unfortunately because......it was in 2015! crazy

Apparently, they spotted it immediately. Seems however, that nobody thought to tell me even though they froze the credit function there and then.
Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 02-Jan-18 19:56:21
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
So they haven't restored the functionality after 2 years !?

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 02-Jan-18 23:29:59
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
Better than that. Until today, apparently, it was still showing as a PayPal credit account alongside my normal PayPal account. Thatís why they turned my application down, saying I already had one. I obviously knew that Iíd never applied for their credit account before.

So they blocked it nearly 3 years ago actually, but never progressed to deleting it, or informing me.


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Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 03-Jan-18 09:42:59
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Just proves how inefficient they are!

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 05-Jan-18 09:08:56
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
can you get a 0% credit card?

if I remember right you only got your current pc a year or 2 ago?

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Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Jan-18 19:03:36
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
You can get 0% on transfers or 0% on purchases...

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Jan-18 21:02:44
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Two and a half years ago nearly. Itís still fast, but I want a 1080 Ti blower style hybrid, and the case is probably a bit small for that. My daughter is using it for her midi mixer input devices instead of her laptop, as my [hers] 4690k steamrollers it.
Standard User astateoftrance
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Jan-18 21:43:50
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
That sucks frown

Have you decided on the specs you will go for ?
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Jan-18 10:19:39
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Spec I ordered. Got time to change it now if needs be:

NZXT S340 Elite all black case
Gigabyte K5 Gaming motherboard
EVGA CLC 120 cpu cooler
Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD
Kingston HyperX black 2666 RAM
Corsair CX750M modular PSU
Ryzen 5 1600X
EVGA GTX1080 FTW Hybrid
Standard User Lt_Swan
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 07-Jan-18 17:31:25
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Blimey that sounds very nice.

Life..... It's just a game
Swanny
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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 08-Jan-18 21:22:24
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
I know, I meant can he get accepted for one smile

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 08-Jan-18 21:23:11
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
ok, just seemed too soon to upgrade, for reference I still run my haswell i5 smile

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 08-Jan-18 23:20:01
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Donít need another credit card, just wanted to take advantage of the buy now and pay later [all in one go] from PayPal.

If not Iíll just wait until Iíve paid Christmas down first; a month or two.
Standard User astateoftrance
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 09-Jan-18 20:09:39
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Nice, that should be a great rig smile
Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 10-Jan-18 11:37:38
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Considering the number of times I get offered them, I'm surprised credit card companies aren't camping on his doorstep...

Or perhaps they are, and being sensible he's fending them off with a flame-thrower...

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Edited by MrTAToad2 (Wed 10-Jan-18 11:38:19)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 12-Jan-18 18:58:52
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
well I see nothing wrong with 0% cards, cheapest form of credit possible, as long as you only ever spend what you can pay back.

Of course the offers in the post come from sub prime card companies I stay away from those cards.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 14-Jan-18 10:35:59
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Credit card companies are the undisputed champion scums of the earth, to anybody who needs the money. Those better off use them as a tool so as to not have to part with their dosh for a few more weeks, and for the added purchase protection. The reality being that those who need them most, pay the interest for those who donít.

Not too far removed from PayPal credit I suppose, when you get down to the nitty gritty, but I still feel more comfortable with them, than with all the other vultures Iíve used over the years.

I remember back around 2009, after the credit crunch. My credit card company wrote to me to say that unfortunately, due to the unanticipated shift in market conditions, they needed to increase my long standing, competitive interest rate of 7.9%......to 15.9%.

Robbing [censored] the lot of them.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 17-Jan-18 21:44:43
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
some of the loan companies my sister use are worse.

70% APR
refusing to supply statements
increasing monthly payments on a whim, and then going to court if refused claiming default

I am trying to do a final settlement with one of them and they are actively refusing to supply final settlement figure, they just want the monthly payments to go on for infinity instead.

At least the poor subprime cards still follow basic financial regulations, and even poor cards offer the 60 day interest free purchases.

Ultimately the entire credit financial system will always hurt the less well off more, as hey charge based on the perceived risk level, someone with low income, poor credit history and tight finances is likely only going to get credit at ridiculous terms. I agree it can be considered not fair, but credit cards are not alone in this. Even reputable banks have been known to supply loans at over 30% APR.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 18-Jan-18 00:46:12
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
My point was more about the fact that those who donít need credit, get to use the card for free, with the added protection that entails [provided for free] whilst those who need to borrow, subsidise them.
Standard User IranianGiraffe
(experienced) Thu 18-Jan-18 14:23:10
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Have you seen that the finance for Overclockers I think it is allows for 12months interest free as long as you pay it off in 12 months (think there maybe a small charge for paying off early).
Not sure how there prices would compare for the components you want from them tho as they tend to be cheaper for some and more expensive for others.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 18-Jan-18 20:30:53
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: IranianGiraffe] [link to this post]
 
Yeah I saw that, thanks. Unfortunately, as you said they donít have all the stuff I was after at the right prices.
Standard User astateoftrance
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Jan-18 08:54:25
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Good luck finding a GPU =/
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Jan-18 13:41:51
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: astateoftrance] [link to this post]
 
Iíve resigned myself to at least £600 for what I want. :/
Standard User astateoftrance
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Jan-18 14:24:03
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Got nothing against people mining but do hate the effect it's having on GPU prices and availability, been browsing a few sites and so many out of stock. Very bad for gamers frown
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Jan-18 19:09:31
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: astateoftrance] [link to this post]
 
+1
Standard User jorkila
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Jan-18 19:55:51
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
If you think that's bad you should check out the 2nd hand market!!!
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Jan-18 00:37:38
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: jorkila] [link to this post]
 
If it doesnít change soon. Xbone X sales will likely start to benefit.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 21-Jan-18 17:35:27
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: IranianGiraffe] [link to this post]
 
be aware there is an admin fee, it works out ok if its a large purchase but not great if its small like £400 or so.

Also they changed finance providers, the new one seems dodgy, I got referred for my mining hardware when I tried to use it (over £900), then they offered to provide the credit in multiple smaller agreements (which meant multiple admin fee's), I told them where to stick it and stuck it on one of my 0% cards instead.

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 21-Jan-18 17:36:16
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
I dont think the PC market has ever been so bad to be honest.

Its not just GPUs that are silly pricing, but also DDR memory is ridiculous at the moment as well.

The fact 1070s have gone up in price following the 1070ti launch which should have pushed them down says it all.

Also I am not convinced its all down to mining, I think whats happened is retailers by accident realised low stock levels (with the associated price rises) are more profitable, and as a result the stock shortage is artificial.

Also with motherboards.

On the older generation boards up to 110 series boards, a asus prime board priced around £110-150 would still get you a lot of premium features. My mining rig has an asus prime z270-k has a lot of features missing from previous generation boards, I made a post about it here, the list is quite extensive. Essentially have moved features that used to be on prime boards to their ROG line only , which are priced at least £60 higher, in some cases almost £200 higher.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31092009

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Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 21-Jan-18 18:13:40)

Standard User IranianGiraffe
(experienced) Mon 22-Jan-18 16:57:38
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
be aware there is an admin fee, it works out ok if its a large purchase but not great if its small like £400 or so.

Also they changed finance providers, the new one seems dodgy, I got referred for my mining hardware when I tried to use it (over £900), then they offered to provide the credit in multiple smaller agreements (which meant multiple admin fee's), I told them where to stick it and stuck it on one of my 0% cards instead.


Wow how can they lend say £900 over multiple smaller arrangements but not over 1 as you are borrowing the same, Like you said they are doing it to get multiple admin fees which is well dodgy.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 00:59:21
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Finally! Just ordered it online:

NZXT 340 Elite Black
Ryzen 5 1600X
Gigabyte AX370 K5
16GB HyperX Predator 3000Mhz DDR4 RAM
Kraken X52 240mm liquid CPU cooler
Samsung EVO 850 250GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 3TB 7200 HDD
Corsair fully modular 850W 80+ Gold PSU

And whatever GTX 1080 is available when I ring them tomorrow...... crazy
Standard User jorkila
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Feb-18 07:46:42
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Very nice mate!!
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Feb-18 08:34:28
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Great processor the Ryzen 5, it just seems to hit the sweet spot and it runs nice and cool, my 1600 with a mild OC of all 6 cores at 3.7GHz it idles at 34c when passively cooled (Arctic Freezer 33), that said i have the fan spinning at 1000rpm normally, you cant hear it and it idles at 28c then.
Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 11:59:58
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Solitare should run quite well with that setup smile

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 13:29:32
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
Is that the Microsoft version? If so then it probably needs something a bit more powerful wink
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 05-Feb-18 14:49:07
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
I think if intel fully secured their cpu's, ryzen might be the faster cpu, if these intel patches are compulsory on windows as they look like they going to be, AMD may be ruling the roost in future.

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 16:17:18
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Faster at some things. The measured impact for Meltdown patches seems to be minimal for most home users - it is server workloads that seem to be taking the brunt. Although it is still unclear as the patches keep getting withdrawn as they keep causing other issues.

Spectre impacts Intel and AMD so unlikely to be much of a differentiator.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 19:29:53
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:
Solitare should run quite well with that setup smile
Even in split screen mode? Oh wait...
Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 19:54:06
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
And, you'll be nagged for the yearly subscription...

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Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 19:54:41
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Might run over multiple monitors at least

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Standard User astateoftrance
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 05-Feb-18 20:04:07
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Very nice grin

Love that case, exactly the style I go for.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 20:23:58
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
I flip flopped between AMD and Intel for ages. I wanted the superior non gaming ability of Ryzen, but read way too many ďfaster individual coreĒ reviews, which just confused the issue.

Eventually this made my mind up for me.

https://youtu.be/s0O3MxolJ7s

At 4k the resolution, the 1600X keeps up with those processors. The GTX1080 is a sensible way to reach 4k. It will run 4k ultra 60fps on racing games (which I play more than anything else), and Iím happy turning down to high for the rest. In the end, I didnít see the extra cost, lower clock, and higher TDP of the 1080ti, as good value for my needs just yet.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Feb-18 20:27:03
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: astateoftrance] [link to this post]
 
I like the front hdmi for VR, my next purchase, but Iím waiting for the new generation before leaping.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 09-Feb-18 19:39:49
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I tested the patch on my mining box, one of the mining scripts launch time went from approx 2 seconds to about 15 seconds.

Basically there is certain types of instructions on the CPU that take a huge hit, the reason it gets called a "minor impact" is because if these massively slowed down instructions are swamped by unaffected instructions it can drag the average down and then claims can be made its not a measurable impact.

Also the biggest performance impacting fix doesnt even have a patch for windows yet, so people who think they testing it are not. Windows just has a partial mitigation right now, which as you said is causing stability issues.

Intel's proposed patches which make system calls take over 10 times as long have been rejected on the linux kernel.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Feb-18 08:44:33
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
So what do you know about the effects on Ryzen processors? Itís [now] known that it affects AMD too, but will the performance hit be be same? I read somewhere early on in this debacle, that the actual security issue existed on both, but that Intelís design approach was what gave it somehat of an edge in performance, and that was the reason any fix would have more impact on their hardware. Have you read anything similar?

Nothing to do with the decision to swap from my I5 4690k, to a Ryzen processor. That was a no brainer in the end, and my daughter still ends up with an excellent overclocker in her rig. smile
Standard User Lt_Swan
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Feb-18 00:04:46
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
What OS are you putting on it?

Life..... It's just a game
Swanny
cool
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 12-Feb-18 00:40:36
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Lt_Swan] [link to this post]
 
W10
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 12-Feb-18 13:58:53
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
Spectre affects both (and others) but as far as I know meltdown is Intel only. There is no real patch for Spectre at present and it is expected that the software will need recompiling to resolve it (to the extent it can be). Meltdown though is a processor architecture issue that cannot be fixed in software but can be mitigated (with some level of performance impact).
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 12-Feb-18 21:10:27
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
2 out of 4 known vulns dont even work on ryzen.
The 3rd ryzen dev's cannot get to work and they are going to make a fix but only for a just in case scenarion, the one that works has a sub 1% performance impact.

I am torn right now between a 8600k and ryzen, on current performance figures the intel wins (compared to the ryzen chip I am looking at) but I think post patches it will be much closer.

Yes now I am upgrading as the ffxv bench saturates my cpu so upgrade time.

Already got a buyer for my haswell kit for £350.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 12-Feb-18 21:47:20
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Other than playing games above 60Hz, I couldnít find a reason to stick with Intel, and that was before this meltdown polava started.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 12-Feb-18 21:58:53
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
here is the comparison of the 2 cpus, ryzen winning a bit on multithreaded, intel on single threaded, its that single threaded gap that bothers me, but I think with all patches applied, it will shrink a lot.

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8...

A low model ryzen 7 has a bigger multithreaded advantage but also bigger single threaded deficit.

FFXV bench wont give me a fluid 60fps on my haswell 4670k, it has to pause to load up new assets as all 4 cores are maxed just doing the rendering. The game will likely be worse as the demo doesnt even have NPC heavy areas and city areas.

GTA5 also maxes out my cpu in city areas as well, so I decided to go for it, especially as ddr4 is also proven to help performance as well now.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 13-Feb-18 07:30:08
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Decided to go for what?
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 13-Feb-18 12:00:39
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
dont know smile

I meant I decided on an upgrade but still dont know if ryzen or intel.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 13-Feb-18 13:35:06
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I used this as my yard stick in the end:

https://youtu.be/s0O3MxolJ7s

I need anything between 1440 - 2160 at a maximum of 60Hz, so spending an extra 130 odd quid felt pointless. I used the extra towards a nicer AIO and a more capable mobo instead!

Should find out just how capable it is this evening, fingers crossed.....
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 13-Feb-18 20:36:01
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
well normally for most games the money should always be focused on GPU, but FF15 (and a fair few jrpgs) are pretty demanding on cpu's. But I wont pay for a 8700k or top end ryzen either. So like yourself I have a limit on what to spend.

Another thing I noticed on these newer intel chips is they want a lot more voltage than haswell, haswell stock voltage is like 1.15v and can overclock at say 1,2-1.25v. Stock voltage on a skylake or coffee lake is much higher close to 1.3v.

Let us know how you get on smile Also which chip did you actually get?

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Feb-18 00:20:05
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In the end I went with the 1600X and a Palit GTX 1080 Super Jet Stream.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 16-Feb-18 19:25:12
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
I ended up going with the 8600k, but I did thing long and hard and seriously considered the ryzen chip you got, I hope I dont regret it. Board was asrock z370 gaming k6 and 16 gig ddr4 3000 ram.

I think its a good choice you made with palit, their coolers are 2.5 slots, very beefy and heavy. Their main customer base is in asia so they design their cooling to work in higher ambient temperatures and it shows.

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Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 16-Feb-18 21:53:50
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Yep, but some proper GPU sag though.
Standard User mrnelster
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 17-Feb-18 00:00:22
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
So the first real test tonight on Dirt Rally. Virtually locked at 60fps (59.97) with Vsync, at 4k with all effects maxed out, but with 2 x MSAA, reduced from 8x and with the CPU barely breaking a sweat.

Wreckfest 4k tomorrow; the physics in that should stretch the 1600xís legs. Be interesting to see how warm things get compared to my old 390x at 1080.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 17-Feb-18 00:56:04
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
looks like I won the silicon lottery like I did with my haswell.

1.268v at 5ghz temps under 65C stress testing (no case tho), not tried lower voltages, but I have yet to need to bump vcore for stability.

If I had a [censored] chip, it probably would have made me depressed I didnt go with ryzen as obviously one thing intel has over amd right now is the OC headroom, but thats not guaranteed on every chip.

Not done any game testing yet, the system has a GT 1030 on it as my haswell still is my working PC with the components in it.

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 17-Feb-18 00:57:03
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Re: No new pc for nelly for a couple more months then...


[re: mrnelster] [link to this post]
 
By the way remember you can use MFAA for buffing up MSAA with little performance cost, so MSAA 4X with MFAA enabled is same performance as MSAA 2X with MFAA disabled.

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