There is a difference between selling a single copy and destroying the current and making it available for all to share for free. To be honest there shouldn't be much wrong with selling the MP3 if only one exists. But if you look at DVDs and the like many of them say you cannot sell the physical DVD - but many still do. But, barring that it is still wrong to rip a track and make it freely available when you don't have the license to do so.

How many readers know where the money goes from iTunes and the like? Is it relevant?

Tom Robinson knows (or knew), see quote below. The artist and writer get so little from downloads that (as TR owns the rights to his tunes) his back catalogue is now downloadable for free, rather than iTunes etc paying him a few pence per purchase and the intermediaries getting the vast majority of what the punter pays out [1].

I'm a fan of another artist with initials T.R. I have a pretty complete T.R. CD collection but if it were to have an accident (e.g. get nicked, as has happened twice already) I couldn't replace it legitimately, because it's mostly "out of print". Used copies in decent condition sell for well over the legit retail price. What's that all about, record companies? (this T.R. is Todd Rungren, touring at the moment, tickets £50 or so in the UK next year). So what am I supposed to do? Keep it all in a safe?

Of the last 3 CDs I bought, one was the latest Elbow (£5 or so, seems vaguely reasonable), the other two were self-published by the bands (one from Berlin, bought in the street during a live performance, pay what you like, the going rate seemed to be 10 euro) and one from closer to home which, despite no record company profiteering, still cost me £12 and was worth every penny (Amser). Before that? Too long ago to remember.

There are plenty of people taking the mickey in this picture. Some of them are ripoff merchants in the industry, some of them are mickeytakers at home.

Not all the mickeytakers at home are the younger generation either. When I first got cable, a long time ago, the man fitting it (at least fifty) was proudly telling me about his pirated elvis collection (acquired via AudioGalaxy).

I do know that anything that Lord "Two Resignations" Mandelson of Ill Repute is supporting is likely to be good for his mates and bad for the public. On that basis, I'm not keen on the current proposals.

Why is the content industry getting special treatment? Because David Geffen, (yes, as in Geffen Records) had dinner with Mandy, that's why [2].

If there's been a criminal offence, get the evidence, prosecute, punish, job done. If there's been a civil wrong, get the evidence, sue, get damages, job done.

Otherwise the rights holders should just shut up, and make some product that people actually want to buy (you can see what those are from the prices for 2nd hand stuff on Amazon eBay etc, and manufactured Cowellpop is not and will not be included).

My 2p.

[1] http://www.tomrobinson.com/records/music/index.htm
"iTunes downloads cost 79p per track. Writer/publisher get 6p, Performer 6-8p, Visa/Mastercard 7p, Apple 12p, and Record Company almost 50p. Sod that. Help yourself to my songs & share them with your friends."
[2] http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_an...

Whilst I accept the concept of copyright, and an artist/producer getting reward for their work, I do not accept

Regional charging differences. Why are UK DVDs/CDs 30-50 % more than US ones?

Regional encoding - Movie/TV companies release many films/shows late very late in the UK. If you enjoy a film or TV series that will not get here what do you do?

Increased copyright periods - Why do governments extend copyright periods for books, music and films, but not pharmaceuitcals? The government is in teh pocket of media companies and wants to continue over charging us


I am sorry for the rant, and before anyone suggests that I am a pirate, I have over a 1000 CDs and many DVDs bought at inflated UK proces.

Not just music but people steal copyright on photographs too.

A friend recently settled a case where he visited a new restaurant with a large number of A2 size high resolution photographs framed on the wall - he recognised some as his own and knew that he had not sold any at that size.

He spoke with the manager who said the image files were bought from a relative of a member of staff and offered to sell my friend a set too! He bought one and checked the EXIF data which still included his own copyright details! His solicitor then wrote to the restaurant who denied theft, but after a while he has received a large settlement and confirmation that the image files have been destroyed.

Obviously the restaurant failed to check but the person that sold the images to them had stolen them - just by making an unofficial copy and no one seemed to care UNTIL is started to cost them in damages.





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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Otherwise the rights holders should just shut up, and make some product that people actually want to buy (you can see what those are from the prices for 2nd hand stuff on Amazon eBay etc, and manufactured Cowellpop is not and will not be included).

My 2p.

Oh yes please, some decent material would be wonderful

And you are right about the home offenders not just being kids, the RIAA took someones grandma to court in the US a couple of years ago.

VivacitiLLU

Any ISP that thinks that selling my click traffic is acceptable is MisinPHORMed

Edited by Finguz (Fri 04-Dec-09 14:15:45)

In reply to a post by ian72:

The main thing I currently disagree with in copyright law is that if I have bought a CD I am technically breaking the law if I copy it to an MP3 player. As far as I am concerned I have bought a license to listen to the music for my personal use - irrelevant of the device I use to do that listening.

Unfortunately the law in the UK is different from elsewhere. In the USA, you can legally make backups of recordings, and use them if the original gets worn out or damaged. In the UK, if you wear out or damage a recording, tough luck, you will have to buy another.

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I dont think its 'ok' to violate copyright, and I respect you for not calling it theft.

The problem is how the copyright holders are going about their business, if someone is taken to court, the court decides based on evidence available to them the person has infringed copyright and is then given a suitable punishment, then no problem.

However instead we have proposals that people are to be disconnected, fined 5 figure sums and such without court proceedings. On top of that there is proposed legislation for UK internet to be killed off for the sake of enforcing copyright, that is on par with doing something like closing all dual carriageways, motorways and putting speed traps on every other road just to catch the occasional speeder.

I expect most people agree with me, its the way this is all going about, the copyright holders are playing poor (when they not) they spend millions lobbying the powerful people in government in a corrupt manner and think they have a divine right to maintain old high profit levels. If people dont want to buy their product then like other business's they have to adapt.

Also consider that for years they were not been agressive against 'offline' copying which has led to consumers considering online copying in the same manner.

The solution is so very simple.

1 - scrap regional markets for media, release dates same global or at least very close, pricing same or at least very close.
2 - scrap copy protection, some people refuse to buy original media simply because they not able to make their own backups from it.
3 - drop prices to a low enough point in that it makes the alternatives less attractive, there is some people that will never buy media, these should be left alone they not even potential customers, but there is also people who would buy if the conditions were right.
4 - release movies to buy at the same time they on at the cinema.
5 - stop releasing movies with features and scenes cut and then selling the same movie again with how it was supposed to be (selling movie twice). The original movie should have the directors cut on there with the cinematic version.
6 - be satisfied they making money in a recession, its just greed that they never happy.

copyright infringement will always exist, if the copyright holders were making huge losses I would have more sympathy but the facts are they not, their profits are very healthy.

on your last point, the copyright holders are stealing from the artists.

every artist I have spoken to feels trapped by copyright holders and I also known some who sold pirated copies of their own work to make a living as they only got 3pence for every cd sold by the copyright holders. says it all really.

This is why some artists have removed the publisher from the loop.

when was that time? I have been alive 30 years and it isnt in my lifetime.

I think the phrase you looking for is permission to use not permission to take.

In reply to a post by zebedeee:

In the UK, if you wear out or damage a recording, tough luck, you will have to buy another.

Only if your stupid enough to buy another. All my CD's are purchased and backed up. I use the backups to protect the originals, just like I used to do with my record collection onto cassettes.

The government ( comedy corner ) might think I don't have the right to do that but I think I do

VivacitiLLU

Any ISP that thinks that selling my click traffic is acceptable is MisinPHORMed