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Standard User Trojan_Hussar
(regular) Fri 28-Jan-11 19:02:40
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Capped FTTC or Unlimited LLU?

[link to this post]
I'm currently with Entanet on their Family 30 package. Unfortunately my family is beginning to outgrow this package and we now regularly get within a few percent of the (peak) 30Gb cap. I even bought my first top-up which I haven't had to do since July 2006 when we first took up with Enta.

Now two events are happening locally in the next few months. At the end of March we get FTTC (they've just put in a shiny new cabinet 450m up the road) and at the end of May we get Cable & Wireless as an LLU provider.

So I can either go to FTTC, which would probably have to be with BT, even on the unlimited package there is still a FUP of 300Gb, which is more than we currently use (peak and off-peak combined we have used as much as 180Gb) but given the additional speed it's only a matter of time. It's more expensive than the Family 30 package by almost £10/month and we'd be tied into a 18 month contract.

Alternatively we could stick with ADSL2+ and go LLU (£40 migration charge) to get the Entanet Unlimited package for a few pence more than we're already paying. We would also lose our 15,000 line profile and might get closer to the 17,536 connect speed we're getting.

FTTC: I like the idea of the higher speed, but with no off peak and everything coming out of the cap I worry that in the not too distant future we might outgrow this package and still be tied in.

C&W LLU: OK there is a more than remote chance that C&W LLU will not meet its FTC date, but if it does arrive I potentially get a marginal speed improvement and I can stop byte watching.

My one concern is that the current FTTC cabinets are limited to 288 connections, and presumably once these are used up BT can decline further connections until a time when there is enough requests to upgrade or add further cabinets.

Any thoughts?

Entanet Family 30 ADSL2+
DL Sync: 17536 UL Sync: 848
Line Profile 15000
C&W LLU @ WMEV RFC 31st May 2011 *FINALLY*
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 28-Jan-11 21:48:25
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Re: Capped FTTC or Unlimited LLU?

[re: Trojan_Hussar] [link to this post]
Apart from customers they serve direct from resellers that have gone bust, Entanet do not have retail customers.

Family 30 sounds like vivaciti? So does the way you describe the Unlimited you can get when C & W becomes available.

Vivaciti Family 30 is their version of an Entanet underlying package. Vivaciti's LLU Unlimited via C & W is nothing at all to do with Entanet, and on the current price list looks to me to be pennies cheaper, not more expensive.

Re IP Profiles, it isn't quite as simple as losing them, though if you can lose them then from what I have seen you invariably gain throughput.

On all ADSL variants, (ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+), there are overheads. Data is split into packets to get around the internet (that bit is nothing to do with ADSL variants, it's just how it works). These packets have envelopes, just like postal packets. This is the TCP/IP system. You are probably aware you have an IP address? That's the address on the envelope.

Once the TCP/IP packet gets to the exchange it has to get from there to you along the old telephone system. That uses ATM packets. So the TCP/IP packets get parcelled up into ATM packets.

Each TCP/IP packet envelope uses some bits, like an envelope uses some extra paper. So does ATM.

The total overhead varies, for more technical reasons not relevant here, between 13% and 18%. The normal rule-of-thumb figure we work on is 16%. So your best possible throughput on an LLU connection is 84% of the connection speed.

As you have a BT IP Profile, you will already know it is considerably lower than the connection speed. Most of that loss is allowing for the packaging! So in theory on such a connection, unless there is congestion or traffic management, you should get very close to the IP Profile as throughput. You will know what results you get in your case.

The trouble is that IP Profile cover ranges of connection speeds, see the table on this page. So people with a connection at or near the bottom of the range should get a decent speed compared to their connection speed, but see the previous paragraph. The unfortunate ones are those with a connection speed higher up in the band, as everything above the start of the band is completely wasted.

On LLU, nothing is wasted. If there is no reason as in two paragraphs above for getting lower than the theoretical maximum, you get the benefit of every extra kbps connection speed. Not only that, but after a low speed connection, for whatever reason it occurred, as soon as you get a proper speed connection you immediately get the full benefit. No waiting up to 5 days for the IP Profile to rise.

So, Family 30 v LLU Unlimited - no contest. It has to be LLU Unlimited.

Either v FTTC? More difficult. What we see so far is that FTTC speeds start off far higher, and the IP Profile system which is present on all current ISPs has much smaller steps and reacts upwards much quicker. So it isn't as much of a pain as on ADSLx.

Unfortunately, so far as I can see, given the very low pricing of BT Infinity I can't see a lot of reason to go for any of the current alternatives. Though I have tried frown. Our cabinet went available a week ago, and I'm on 6.5Mbps ADSL2+ and using around 20GB per month, paying £5.11 per month! Maybe rising to £7.66 in April. 500 metres from the cabinet so well over 30Mbps on FTTC.

Speed would be nice, but ...?

My broadband basic info/help site -
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User vivaciti
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 29-Jan-11 16:38:08
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Re: Capped FTTC or Unlimited LLU?

[re: Trojan_Hussar] [link to this post]
There is also other FTTC packages and I am sure more to follow,
We have released our other FTTC packages, these are not showing on our website yet but details can be seen at
This would give you a fair bit more and there are going to be some changes to the Enta based FTTC packages but we don't have details just yet.
Vivaciti Broadband
0800 0911797


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