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Standard User JimmyW77
(newbie) Thu 14-Apr-11 14:46:51
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My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[link to this post]
Hi All,

First post here, am after some advice, guidance and hopefully some info to help me tackle an issue with BT Broadband. When I speak to BT shortly I want to guarantee that I am providing them with enough information to get a satisfactory resolution. After reading through multiple forums a full-on approach seems necessary.
The basic details.
1. BT BB option 2.
2. Best sync speed (Downstream) 1834k (Monitored over 9 months, didnít know about IP Profile or BRAS till about a month ago)
3. Best recorded overall result over 9 months was 1456 kbps

Present results (I know the profile is low part of the issue I think and will come to that later)

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
446 Kbps

0 Kbps 500 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 446 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 50-500 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :1792 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 500 Kbps

Iíll keep it short but will give some background. Over the last 9 months. The BT Broadband Option 2 has been slow, intermittently slow speeds and just generally poorer than expected.
My expectations for this connection are for a connection of around 2 mb. (Give or take the variations due to Attn and SNR, length i am form the exchange etc) Think broadband has people only a couple of streets away with connections of around 6mb

Iíve had 1 visit form a BT engineer following a 2 week period of sub 500k speeds. Unfortunately I donít know what my IP Profile was set to at that time as I have been on a learning experience trying to get to the bottom of it and didnít know to look for that previously. The sync speed was about 1700 kbps then though.
He replaced the main faceplate on the master socket with an openreach one (has the inline filtering as far as I know). He had the line re-profiled and all was well for another couple of months.
My present stats are (Via the test socket)
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1792 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 63.0 dB 31.5 dB
Noise Margin 12.5 dB 17.0 dB

I noticed that it was slowing again about 3 weeks ago and since then I have tried to be methodical in my troubleshooting. (Knowing it can take 5 days for the IP Profile to stabilise) I have done the following in this order:
1. Reset the BT HH (Itís a HH1)
2. Removed additional peripherals form the extension lines (Skybox and extensions)
3. Swapped Microfilters on extension socket where router was seated
4. Changed routers to a DGN2000
5. Move it to the Test socket in the master socket. New Microfilter (Up for 48 hours, will leave it up to hopefully improve the IP Profile, so probably still reprofiling that atm.)

They are all new D-Link Microfilters. These were changed at the last call out 2 months ago.

So after lots of reading in the last week on Kitz, SamKnows, digitalspy and the Openworld forums. I have drawn these conclusions on my present connection stats.
My Line Attn is high. According to samknows, I am 1.69km from the exchange (as the crow flies).
With a line attenuation of 63.0 db that would have a cable length of 4.6km this seems crazy to me, is it possible that my cable length could be so long? (I understand some give and take but that is nearly there and back again and then there again)
My SNRM seems low, should be at least 6 dB? Am I correct and have I worked that out correctly?
Iíve been running RouterStats Ėlite for 2 days and have had a couple of drops, though the router has a 48 hour uptime after its most recent move (i.e. no physical connection drop according to the router). My Speed has been 1792kbps (Via the test socked) Noise 12.8 dB constantly for both without the 2 drops. Which seem instantaneous.

So in conclusion can anyone point out where to start with BT? Are my expectations reasonable? Theory seems to suggest I could get up to 4mb. Dependant on copper quality etc.

Thanks in advance and I hope that thatís not too much info. All suggestions welcome.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 14-Apr-11 15:47:57
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: JimmyW77] [link to this post]
Hi James, welcome to the forums smile.

You seem to have learned a lot very quickly about how things work. Just a couple of oddities to straighten out first.

You correctly call your noise margin SNRM, rather than the incorrect SNR that some routers call it, but you say it is low at 12.8dB.

You are right in thinking the (BT) default is 6dB, but 12.8dB is high - not low. Have a read of my page about it, and then the High noise margin page in the Troubleshooting section.

Yes - you should get a 1500kbps IP Profile very soon, as long as nothing messes that up.

Next time you notice a re-connection, or do one yourself, note the noise margin immediately afterwards.

It also seems very odd that on what has all the symptoms of an unstable line the noise margin shown by RSL is constant.

Re the instantaneous drops on the RouterStats Lite, is the down leg of the drop red or is it the normal colour? Red means it just didn't reply to the request for the data. I advise setting the sampling interval to the minimum possible, (I forget if that is 5 or 7 seconds), and making the graph cover something like an hour. Makes analysing oddities easier. I assume you have it saving the graphs so you can look back, and suggest you also log to file as that can be easier to scan to see when something happened. Or to post extracts for people to see.

My broadband basic info/help site -
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 14-Apr-11 15:48:33)

Standard User JimmyW77
(newbie) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:03:20
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]

Thanks so much for the fast response and the information. I'll have a read over your webpage this evening. I've just chaned RSL to your suggested settings and will leave that running.

I'll report back shortly with any new info. I am still very curious as to what my expected Line Attn should be and would really like to know my calbe length to the exchange. given that it's 1.69 km away (los)

Cheers again.


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Standard User RSTSGeek
(regular) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:14:24
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: JimmyW77] [link to this post]
Hi James,

You might be surprised as to how convuluted the cable routing might be.

My attentuation was around 40 db under ADSL, which gave a line length of
something approaching 3km. My distance to the exchange, as the crow flies,
however, comes up as around 1.29 (from Samknows). I strongly suspect that
my line goes down the nearest road, bypassing my house, then continues on
for another 0.5 kms (or so), then goes around the houses to approach my
property from the opposite direction.

Maybe your line takes the "scenic" route, too !

- Alex
Standard User DrDeath
(member) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:20:39
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: RSTSGeek] [link to this post]
can you still do that thing on your phone where it would tell you your rough cable length ?

I forgot what number is was you dialed, then you pressed for loop length option and it told you.

Can you still do it ?

I think it was only meant for BT use, but it worked.

_ _ _ _ _
Stage one: Signed up for pipex 1pm May 31st
Stage two: Received Email verification with order number 6 pm May 31st
Stage three: Sent old 56k modem off to pipex by special delivery June 1st 10:30 am
Stage four Received Email Telling me login details have been sent 1st class, and activation within 10 working days prior to firther line tests smile 13:30 Thur 6th June
Stage Five ACTIVATED june 11th 6 days early !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Standard User RSTSGeek
(regular) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:31:28
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: DrDeath] [link to this post]
I can't be certain, but I think that they withdrew that feature, due to abuse.

I am quite happy to stand corrected if anyone, more in the know, says otherwise.

- Alex
Standard User JimmyW77
(newbie) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:40:04
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: RSTSGeek] [link to this post]
I think it might still be there via 17070 but BT Engineers now have some sort of RSA token activation on their mobiles. So doubt we can get at it (Grumble....)

Am getting that impression that the cable has been fed back to the exchange by a drunken ferret. (This area was built in 1983 so am hoping the coper should be reasonable quality, though i guess i can't discount a Aluminium run somewhere)

Thanks for the responses.

Standard User RSTSGeek
(regular) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:48:03
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: JimmyW77] [link to this post]
I just came across this on the KITZ site.

Exchange and Line Checker

It gives distance "as the crow flies" and by road.

I am not sure how it works out which route to take, but it seems to
give a closer value to the one calculated by attenuation.

- Alex

I don't think that Openreach have started employing drunken
ferrets yet, but I know what you mean !
Standard User JimmyW77
(newbie) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:54:40
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: RSTSGeek] [link to this post]
Cheers Alex, I just gave that a go.

Distance:- Direct: 1.65 km
By Road: 1.93 km
ADSL enabled: March 31, 2001
DSL Max enabled: March 31, 2006
SDSL enabled : Not Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) N/A
21CN WBC (Broadband) Enabled 28.02.11
Broadband AccessÜ
Market 2

So the 4.6km via Attn seems horrid. I have read on antoher forum that there and are often long runs of cable left inside the exchange. (Soemthing to do with when the exchanges when DSL live)

Thanks again

Standard User Lemzip
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 14-Apr-11 17:55:23
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Re: My Broadband Connection Speed and expectations

[re: RSTSGeek] [link to this post]
also jimmy, please note that most routers dont report attenuations over 63 or 63.5db so you line is probably even longer.
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