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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 04-Jul-11 10:45:51
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Lift and Shift?


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Hello,

I have Sky Broadband for four years, but for the last two months it has been disconnecting when using the phone (for both incoming and outgoing calls). It then re-syncs but usually with a poor upload speed (about 160k compared to the usual 796k).

I've had three Openreach engineers out and two of them both suggested a "Lift and Shift" procedure at the exchange. Sky have finally decided to give it the go ahead and it's due to be done sometime this week. What does this involve? I've been reading posts describing similar faults to mine and "tie pairs" keep cropping up, do they get changed during the lift and shift procedure?

I'm hoping this works as Sky seem to be very reluctant to have any work done at the exchange.

I've tried countless new filters, and the last BT Openreach engineer fitted an NTE2000 faceplate but this hasn't made any difference. I've also tried double filtering the phone, and I've had a new router from Sky but the problem persists.

Thanks in advance
Standard User jonsco
(newbie) Mon 04-Jul-11 11:04:25
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
They move you from 1 card holding upto 32 connections to another, in the hope that the other one is more stable. They don't like replacing cards because they cost around £1500 each. It should help, it did for me.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Jul-11 17:17:10
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I have Sky Broadband for four years, but for the last two months it has been disconnecting when using the phone (for both incoming and outgoing calls). It then re-syncs but usually with a poor upload speed (about 160k compared to the usual 796k).

That doesn't sound like an exchange fault to me, sounds more like an HR line fault.


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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 04-Jul-11 17:27:39
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm guessing that HR is High Resistance? Someone did suggest that as a possible cause, but the three Openreach engineers didn't mention it. Do I need to raise the potential HR fault with Sky or BT?
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Jul-11 17:33:06
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Persist with Sky, don't bother getting technical, just persist with the 'dropping sync/poor speeds theme'. When the next broadband engineer turns up, ensure that they use their test phone at the same time as they test the sync, if and when the line drops, they'll have something to chase.

Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Tue 05-Jul-11 16:54:16
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I was supposed to be getting a Lift and Shift following a disconnection issue similar to what you describe. (Speeds were not affected.) I ended up with a full Tie & Pair Modification (TPM). My line’s great now. I can enjoy broadband without worrying about using the phone!

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/aaisp/4009184-aaisp...

http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/105476382.png

As Zarjaz said, make sure the BTO engineer does test for HR Dis. I'm not 100% sure but Idon't think the first one to come to me did. Anyway, good luck with Sky. Let us know how you get along.

Edited by ARD (Tue 05-Jul-11 16:56:04)

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 05-Jul-11 21:07:06
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
All adsl engineers test for HR dis faults as well as every other line condition under the terms of an SFI visit. Using either a JDSU / EXFO or Hawk and laptop combination the engineer engages the test heads in the exchange and executes a script on the tester which amongst other things tests the whole loop resistance and then the resistance of each leg - highlighting HR faults.
Dont forget though, a HR fault can occur prior to the test head- i.e. in tie pairs or cards / ports themselves. Just about every possible fault can occur before the access network and be cured by a lift and shift (which includes a tie pair change as default).
Also a voice test is mandatory so any noise etc will also be picked up if present.

These batteries of tests though are like everything else - not perfect. I have had faults pass every single test but still no sync. Chasing the sync (as is possible with a hand held tester) to locate faulty section is sometimes the only way to find the issue.

That said, faulting of dsl issues has come a long way in the past 2 years thanks to BT finally buying top grade kit and enhancing the test facilities.
When I first started all we had was a 333mhz laptop using a voyager modem and five faces which either went sad and red or green and smiley if ok on a weird app (we also had the stats to be fair though). Finding line faults involved using an analogue multimeter (ah the needle isnt moving much must be fine!), a megga which took 30mins to use so nobody did, and a 301 TDR (which I must say has to this day never been beaten for accuracy and ability to filter out ghosts).

I very much doubt many lines would have passed the pair quality tests we have today 5-6 years ago. The network has benefited greatly from the money / focus OR have been able to pour into it.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Tue 05-Jul-11 22:16:07
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I'd have to say I don't 100% agree.

Had an HR fault on Saturday, classic symptoms, dropped sync as soon as the phone was used. The PQT showed only 1ohm difference between the leg resistance, ie balanced. The JDSU's TDR would show nowt, auto ID, nowt (new firmware loaded this week), and even my trusty ( I agree with you here), tester 301 shows nothing........

The fault was in the poxy three way crimps in the cab, 320m away, why do they insist they are used ? Why would nothing show this up ?
The network has benefited greatly from the money / focus OR have been able to pour into it.

Shame the new higher level management is returning their focus to prod [sad]

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 07-Jul-11 20:39:23
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
yep hence "These batteries of tests though are like everything else - not perfect."

The point was though that we do test for HR DIS even if the test doesnt work 100% of the time.
As a boost engineer (a real boost now - not the 5weeks training, "well done you are a boost engineer" lot they are taking on) I have on occasion, where all tests show perfect spent all day proving a new pair - joint by joint - than trying to track down the intermittent fault.
At least that way you know you have bypassed the fault.
Not many willing to do that though, as agreed its more about the IPOP these days sadly...
3 way crimps are a joy, not in cabs though, but sometimes you just cant fit all extensions onto a front plate so handy there.
And some swine stole my 301 a few weeks ago (left in dead drop), it was a very early 301c that liked to pretend there is an intermittent at 40M. Hope the guy has fun faulting with that tee hee hee.
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Fri 08-Jul-11 10:58:23
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Re: Lift and Shift?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Are you the "Anonymous" that posted the original question as "Anonymous"? It can get confusing around here smile
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