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Standard User GrowFins
(newbie) Sat 09-Jul-11 14:58:05
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BT 21CN vs LLU service


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Hi there,

my first post - please excuse any unintentional ignorance. I'm looking at changing my provider. Currently have a service with Virgin ADSL and through enquiries I've been told it's LLU at the local exchange, which is Market 3. I've read this is likely to be renting the C&W kit. Through SamKnows and all the availability checkers it seems I can get either BT21CN or LLU connection.

Most of the packages that are using the BT kit tell me I'll get 12mb downstream (same as I get currently), whereas most of the LLU options (Sky, C&W are enabled) are just giving an 'up to' value (16mb, 24mb).

I'm aware that speed is not the whole issue, and that I may still only get 12mb from an LLU service. I also know that my line conditions and the particular ISP handling my service contribute greatly to the whole broadband experience.

So, if I pick an ISP with a good customer service recommendation, and If I've got the choice of both options, is there any general consensus of the pros and cons of going with either?

Is there also anything particularly different if I swapped back to the BT product from the current LLU connection ? Lots of people seem to moan about the BT profiling, DLM etc.

thanks in advance



btw - I'm not on a particularly long line, current DS attentuation is 21db. My speeds are steady at 14000kbps and my ds sn margin is solid at 11db.
Standard User Spacemanc
(learned) Sat 09-Jul-11 19:50:00
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
This was my experince of moving from Sky LLU to Orange 21CN.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/f/4010665...

I'm paying far less, getting a much faster service, and no sign of profiling - and the service is the same at any time of the day. I was particularly surprised to get a faster speed, because Skys BB is a pretty good service and BT's network is always said to be overloaded.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Jul-11 22:59:46
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GrowFins:
I'm not on a particularly long line, current DS attenuation is 21db. My speeds are steady at 14000kbps and my ds sn margin is solid at 11db.
With those stats you should be getting at least 17 Meg, on LLU or 21CN WBC equally.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB


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Standard User GrowFins
(newbie) Sat 09-Jul-11 23:21:08
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your reply. That's what I've been told by the calculator at Kitz.co.uk, and what led me think that the current provider might be an issue. Virgin certainly aren't any help trying to change anything. I'm wary that if I do change provider i may not necessarily get a speed change, but at least they might care to look.

Is there anything to recommend checking at my end ?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Jul-11 23:45:22
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
I also used Kitx for my estimate smile. As you are so short of your lines capability, you are almost certain to gain by switching to another LLU provider.

For about £31 fee extra you could try out O2 LLU for a month and see.

Post your full router stats.

Have you removed ring wire, swapped filters, plugged str8 into test socket behind face plate?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User GrowFins
(newbie) Sat 09-Jul-11 23:58:58
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your reply.

US speed 805
DS speed 14015

DS LINE ATTENUATION 21
US LINE ATTENUATION 11.5

US SNR 9.3
DS SNR 10.5


I removed the ring wire and re-wired the internal phone extensions about 4 weeks back. Prior to that the DS SNR was around 3-5db. The stats are now very steady. I Have momentary loss of sync once a week or so. I Have fitted an ADSL filtered faceplate. Stats are now almost identical to master socket.

Thanks for looking

Edited by GrowFins (Sun 10-Jul-11 00:02:48)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Jul-11 08:04:30
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GrowFins:
US speed 805
DS speed 14015

DS LINE ATTENUATION 21
US LINE ATTENUATION 11.5
Definitely something odd then. You're syncing a tad lower than me and my DS attenuation is 34db.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Jul-11 08:12:13
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
I suspect its the downstream SNR thats causing the loss of the last little bit of speed.

As someone else says, take a look at Be Unlimited/O2, there are many options for ISP, as I guess you already know, your current wouldn't be my first choice, TBH. If you want good tech support/fault resolution from your ISP, then you are going to have to pay a little more for it I'm afraid.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 10-Jul-11 09:24:46
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: GrowFins] [link to this post]
 
Stats are now almost identical to master socket
You may be checking at the wrong place there. The external socket at the master should be about the same, but the internal Test socket may be better. Whichever is the case, I agree with Zarjaz that your IP Profile is high and slowing you down. It should not have risen like that from improving the wiring setup.

O2, available on monthly contract for an initial extra £31, or Be, seem to be great suggestions for you.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User GrowFins
(newbie) Sun 10-Jul-11 16:43:52
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Re: BT 21CN vs LLU service


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You may be checking at the wrong place there. The external socket at the master should be about the same, but the internal Test socket may be better.
Yeah, I was referring to the internal test socket, the SNR is a little higher (0.5 -1db) when plugged in there when compared to the extension I wired up, but the speed still isn't notably higher as I recall. Even though I say it myself, I'm quite pleased with the wiring work I did as the SN margin has shot up by nearly 6db and the connection is so much more stable than before.



I suspect its the downstream SNR thats causing the loss of the last little bit of speed.
That's what I presumed I could ask my ISP to do - change the SN margin to a lower value and get some increase in sync speed. Virgin said it couldn't be done and my line was maxed out for speed, even when I quoted the attentuation figures and the higher SN margin. That's when I started to think about swapping provider.



I agree with Zarjaz that your IP Profile is high and slowing you down. It should not have risen like that from improving the wiring setup.
My knowledge is poor on profiles but here is my assumption: I was running on a 12db profile previously as my connection was continually dropping. When I improved the wiring set up I presumed I was creating more margin in the connection for the adsl signal and I could request a lower profile (6db) from Virgin and therefore get some more speed. Please feel free to correct me on this assumption, and if there is anything useful you guy's know, please share !

I'm more than happy to switch provider and have also been looking at Xilo LLU. Would it be correct to presume that if I swap from Virgin to Xilo (or some other ISP) and they are both buying the LLU connection from C&W at my exchange, I would essentially end up with the same physical connection as before in the exchange, but what I would gain is better support etc?

thanks again for your interest
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