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Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Fri 15-Jul-11 19:11:56
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What has happened to my line?


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I've been using a Speedtouch 585 v6 and, by using every trick in the book, eventually got my connection to 3.4Mbps, solid, reliable over many months. However, when I switch everything off to go on holiday it can take a week or two on my return before it settles down, and in the meantime it is seriously flaky.

So I tried a Netgear 3300Nv2. Disaster, Speed went down and down, then it started dropping wireless connections so it went back. The Speedtocuh was plugged back in for a few weeks, speed went up to 2.9Mbps, then I switched it off, went on holiday and when I came back it's really struggling, it's topped out at about 1.9Mbps. meantime I've ordered, received and plugged in a Billion 7800N. It's showing a downstream line attenuation of 61.0, where the Speedtouch shows 54.0. I've tried swapping the S back in and it still shows 54 so I think it's just a different measurement calculation BUT I just can't get any speed out of the line, with either router. If I drop the sn on the Speedtouch it's unstable to the point that it won't connect. The Billion is smarter, it keeps upping the sn until it works.

So what the heck is going on? I think my line is goosed and, short of moving house I'm stuck?
Standard User iand
(experienced) Fri 15-Jul-11 20:21:30
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
looks like you have a long line.
What about your neighbors. What are they getting. Is it just your line or the whole area. time to hold a barbecue and ask around. Could you borrow/swap a router from their service to check this out..

IanD
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 15-Jul-11 20:57:46
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried a 2-Wire router ? V.good on getting the best from a long line AND hanging on to it. What are your full stats, and what are they like in the test socket ?


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Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Sat 16-Jul-11 08:59:39
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks guys. Stats look like;

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 448
Downstream 1600
SNR Margin(Upstream) 16.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 10.7
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 31.5
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 61.0

Using master socket makes no difference.

Spending MORE money on another router, speculatively isn't going to go down well.

I was getting way better results than neighbours due to chopping bell wire and tweaking sn margin but now it's dire.

I'm hoping it's something that will sort itself out if I leave it alone. Experience says that exchange changes can take up to ten days, never mind the three that we're often told. Trouble is I didn't stand in the patience queue while I was waiting to be born! wink

I think I'm just looking for a shoulder to cry on really. It's just frustrating that something is wrong and I don't seem to be able to do anything about it. It's like the exchange has decided not to let my sn margin fall below about 10.

I will try very hard to be patient, leave it alone and let it settle down.

Thanks for you sympathy and suggestions.

John
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jul-11 09:36:37
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Using master socket makes no difference.

Does it have a TEST socket and if so is that what you were using?

Best to connect to the TEST socket and get fresh router stats smile

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Sat 16-Jul-11 11:16:20
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
I've never heard of a test socket. I took the faceplate off the master socket and used the one hidden behind. That's the test socket?

John
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 16-Jul-11 11:19:53
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Yes.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Sat 16-Jul-11 11:51:16
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I like answers like that! You could never be a politician smile (That's a compliment by the way).

John
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Tue 19-Jul-11 09:19:00
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Patience pays off. Plus a little help from Billion support who are proving to be excellent.

A factory reset and I'm now synced at 4352k, which is excellent for my line. And that's without tweaking the snr. I assume the snr tweak that I did got lost in the factory reset.

My BRAS profile is back to 3500. My IP profile is stuck on 2000 so my download rate is still limited but, once again, I guess I'll have to be patient.

Things are looking up. It certainly seems that I'll get a 3.5Mb download speed, which is what I was getting before, but without all of the drama and instability. Who knows, it might even get up to 4Mb, which is little short of miraclulous this far from the exchange.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 19-Jul-11 09:26:28
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Result! (Partial).

By BRAS profile I assume you mean the IP Profile reported by the BT speed test, and by IP Profile the copy held by your ISP and showing in your control panel.

If your ISP is Plusnet then this should update within a few hours. If it stays low for 24 hours then the notification system between BT and them has failed, which it sometimes does, and you need to contact them.

On AAISP I'm not quite sure when the update happens. I have a feeling a similar system also operates on Entanet, but I'm not sure.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Tue 19-Jul-11 13:08:39
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm with Zen who allow me to see line info. I got the BRAS info from there and the IP profile from the BT speedchecker. But don't make the mistake of thinking I know what I'm talking about!

I resynced about 23 hours ago and I understand that the IP profile is set from the "long term average sync speed". At least that's what I read. Now, whether "long term" means hours, days or weeks I have no idea but I did have about 10 days where the old Thomson was severely struggling and would only sync at a low speed. So I'm in "be patient" mode. It's not easy but it seems to be working.

Thanks,
John
Standard User john2007
(legend) Tue 19-Jul-11 13:17:23
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
It'd be more accurate to say the profile reflects your lowest recent sync. For simplicity's sake you could assume the profile reflects the lowest sync within the last five days.
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Tue 19-Jul-11 15:11:35
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
The lowest sync was 1600, sustained for, iirc, one day, so I'm inclined to believe the average theory, though there does seem to be an element of voodoo in all of this smile

I must keep repeating "be patient".

Thanks,
John
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 19-Jul-11 15:50:25
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
The "average" idea is total bunkum I'm afraid.

The way it works is explained here.

It looks from your post as though Zen are another that hold a copy. However, it appears their copy is wrong. The one shown in the BT speed test is what is currently being applied.

The only time the ISP version is relevant, other than as an easier way to find out the IP Profile than running the BT speed test, is if it is lower than the BT one, and is applied by the ISP (as per Plusnet and AAISP as I said earlier) rather than just provided as information. The lower of the two figures would then be the ruling one, with the BT one always being the correct (master) one.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Tue 19-Jul-11 16:30:27
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. That seems to confirm that all I can do is wait.

Speed tests hit a brick wall at 2000k and that is the figure that the BT tester is showing.

I'll report what happens.

John
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Thu 21-Jul-11 08:44:35
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
Some time between about 7 last night and 9 this morning the line has gone back to 3.5Mbps. Hurray! So that's just over 2 days to get back to normal. OK that's slower than 74% of GB according to Speedtest.net but it's an awful lot better than 2.0.

Now, I wonder if I can start tweaking this 2800N up to 4.0 smile

John
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Wed 27-Jul-11 19:24:49
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
And then, 2 days later it crashed down to about 1700k sync speed and it's stayed there frown

I've spoken to Zen. Ah the sheer joy of talking to someone who knows what he's doing and does the tests there and then rather than talking to one of BT's script bunnies!

Anyway, he reckoned he could see that my line has been degrading since February, so he must have access to some historical info. And something was going up and down (sorry, can't remember what) when it should be steady. I think he told me that small, rural exchanges (like mine) lack the equipment needed to quickly match the IP profile to the BRAS profile, that's why it takes a few days for it to catch up frown

So, a BT engineer arrives tomorrow, (booked by Zen I might add after reading the other thread on "BT eng coming").

And, at the risk of starting WW3 (I know there are a lot of Billion fans on here), I told him I'd recently bought a new router. He tried both. Now he didn't know which was which. This was a "blind test". But he reckoned that ye olde Speedtouch 585v6 was hanging onto the line better than the Billion 7800N I've just bought (boo hoo!!). This lines up with my observation that the Speedtouch reports a downstream atenuation of about 54db, the Billion about 61db. I thought maybe it was just doing it's sums differently, obviously not.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Jul-11 19:28:46
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
I think he told me that small, rural exchanges (like mine) lack the equipment needed to quickly match the IP profile to the BRAS profile, that's why it takes a few days for it to catch up [/i[

That was waffle, the rules for IPStream BRAS are well known, big changes in an hour or so, small changes may take five days. 21CN WBC is slightly more reactive mainly due to the fact it offers more IP Profile steps.


Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User panda
(committed) Wed 27-Jul-11 19:48:59
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Not entirely true.
BTW have for some time been trialling a new profile system for WBC, where there are no profile bands as before, but rather the profile is set to 88% of sync at each sync event - i.e. no more waiting for profiles to change.


Eats shoots and leaves.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 27-Jul-11 20:56:12
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
I have heard that (I think it referred to BT Broadband) that if you switch you router off for an extended period, it may take days for the ISP to 'retrain' it.

I switch off my router along with my computer every night and often during the day and this has absolutely no effect on the speed: the router's up to speed before the computer has finished booting. But I'm with Namesco, not BT Broadband and the router is a D-Link DSL2640R.
Was the same with the previous DG-843 except that the latter took around a minute to sync.

Regards,

Jim.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Jul-11 21:25:06
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Urban myth

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Jul-11 21:25:35
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: panda] [link to this post]
 
Had missed that trial - must read more I guess

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Thu 28-Jul-11 15:24:35
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
BT engineer has been. He has found a noise problem "at the box" i.e. not in my home on the distribution side. There is only one spare and it also has a problem so he is going to have to pass it to an underground engineer. Noise was not apparent from our test socket (??).

That's a bit of a result as it started off quite badly. He plugged in test kit to the socket normally used by the router and got 1700k.

He repeated the test on the test socket, got 2000k and remarked that maybe the extension cabling was not the best. So I remarked that the speed varies over time and 2000 is well short of 4000+ I was worried at that point that I was going to be fobbed off but, while it's not resolved, a fault has been found so I just have to wait for the next step now.

So, in the next thrilling installment...
Standard User JHo1
(newbie) Fri 29-Jul-11 09:16:26
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Re: What has happened to my line?


[re: JHo1] [link to this post]
 
The underground engineer has just been. He needs to start by listening for noise at our test socket. So all he had was basically a phone handset. He plugged it in and listened to the dial tone. He said he didn’t have the clever test kit that yesterday’s guy had! No problem at the test socket so now he has to drive along visually inspecting the line, though at some point it does go underground apparently. He will plug his handset in where he can and listen for noise. With his lug ‘oles. With any luck he’ll find it at the distribution box, the same as the first chap.

He did say that if he finds nothing it will have to be reported again(!) and he and the first chap will have to work together. Wouldn’t it be cheaper and faster for BT to buy him one of the clever testing gizmos?

Anyway, he’s out there now so, fingers crossed, he’ll find the problem. No point shouting yet.

I’m not impressed with this lot. No wonder I switched to Zen, at least I’ve got away from a part of their (BT) organisation.
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