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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 31-Aug-11 11:48:52
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Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


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I noticed this in the TBB coverage maps.

Looks like VM are concerned only with reaching the 80% of 'easy to supply' users. Hence why BT is rolling out ADSL2+ / FTTx to these areas quicker than rural areas imo. I checked with VM in my area and they basically offer BT's) broadband to me for more cost. Ironically, they offer the 50Meg fibre to my old house about 0.25 miles away.

It seems that both BT's and VM's rollout strategies seem to be confusing to 'us punters'. Some people can get high-speed, while others close by get bog-standard (not even ADSL2+) BB. It's interesting that living in an area which was built in 2006/7 and finished in 2008, there's nothing better than bog-standard BB. Forward thinking on the part of the telco's doesn't seem to be be their forte. That is to say, they don't see the value for the punter. Only the price, and that can be covered by the punter later anyway.

Who fancies starting up a third option? smile

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

All Connection Data
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 31-Aug-11 11:53:47
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Nothing new other than we are showing the coverage for VM
The fact that the 50% of households in UK that VM service with cable is mainly urban is no surprise.

VM National product is where possible running on the C&W LLU platform, rather than WBC or IPStream

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 31-Aug-11 13:15:38
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
"Nothing new."

That's part of the point of my post. smile

Both of the UK's main BB players are not interested in 100% UK BB coverage by 2015, especially when one considers this article.

Broadband speeds across the UK were revealed today to be on average far slower than advertised, with the nation's average download rate barely half of the average available maximum.

The research, conducted by speed optimisation firm Pando Networks, found that the average UK download speed was just 481KBps. [3848kbp/s - camie]

...but the worst performer of all was BT, with speeds of just 399KBps [3192kbp/s - camie], and a lamentable completion rate of 77 per cent.

The worst broadband speeds in the country were found in Stanford-on-Avon in Northamptonshire, with an average of just 130KBps [1040kbp/s - camie].

A recent study by UK telecoms regulator Ofcom found that the average maximum speed of UK broadband connections was 7.5Mbps; the above shows that the reality is just over half of that, at 3.85Mbps.


It increasingly looks like the targets of 100% coverage at 2Meg are not going to be reached, and if they are, it will be just 2Meg. 4Meg should be the target. Back when this 100% coverage plan was mooted, the web content was a fifth of what it is now. There's no way that 2Meg will be sufficient for whatever 2015 holds for us (assuming it happens on time).


13th Nov. 2003 - UK govt calls for 100% broadband coverage by 2005
"That is why today I am calling on them to work even more closely with us, to identify the challenges ahead so that between us we can take the next big stride in achieving a common goal - 100 per cent broadband availability by the end of 2005."


22nd Apr. 2009 - Budget: Plans for complete broadband coverage in UK
Chancellor Alistair Darling today outlined plans to use Government money to help achieve complete broadband internet coverage for the whole of the UK.

The Digital Britain review, led by communications minister Lord Carter, published an interim report in January which called for every home in the UK to have access to 2 megabit-per-second broadband - fast enough to watch video online - by 2012.


15th Jul. 2010 - Broadband target put back to 2015
Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary, said that it was not practical to meet the previous government's target of universal broadband coverage by 2012 Ė a commitment he had previously dismissed as "paltry". Instead, Hunt said it would take until 2015 before every home in Britain had at least a 2Mbps (megabits per second) connection.



So where are we now? The Ofcom publication 6th August 2011 shows that 14% of UK connection are less than 2.2 Meg sync on average (I noticed my region is 14% too, so an average place it seems).

You posted "Best in Europe by 2015 is the goal" in TBB's article comments here, while this article echos that fact (both articles in Autumn 2010):

The Government has said that Britain will have the best broadband network in Europe by 2015.

However, it also mentions the following:
It found that countries such as Latvia, Bulgaria and Portugal are already achieving the necessary 11mbps download and 5mps upload speeds.



I just feel that the UK will not be 100% 2Meg by 2015, nor will it be the best in Europe. It might have 2/3 high-speed access by then, so it's averages will look good on the leages tables, but the 1/3 of other users will be forgotten in the scramble and those who do get 2Meg will find the web is demanding 4Meg as a minimum for interactivity.

Doom and gloom, I know, but the history of the targets and deliveries speak for themselves. If things weren't that bad, the 'powers that be' would be shouting the good news from the rooftops. Given that we are now looking at a target that is ten years behind the original target, and that none of the previous targets have been met, what else can we expect?

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

All Connection Data


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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 31-Aug-11 19:02:17
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
The biggest impediment to getting HS Broadband rolled out to 90% of the UK is the monopoly BT has in the local loop (excluding cabled areas)

You will find that a substantial amount of BT's FTTC rollout is in cabled areas where they have competition. The non-cabled areas are left to last as they donít need to worry as they have no competition.

To sped roll out up and to keep BT on its does there has to be competition in the local loop.

This could be by means of the Fujitsu lead Open Network Consortium or by making the Local loop independent of BT. This could be by making it a separate BT company. A key part being it would not be able to provide service to end users.

Either of the above would get more competition. There is plenty of competition at the ISP level but they all have to use the BT local loop and that is where the problem lies
Standard User panda
(committed) Wed 31-Aug-11 19:20:57
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
The biggest impediment to getting HS Broadband rolled out to 90% of the UK is the monopoly BT has in the local loop (excluding cabled areas)
So why is cable not available in these areas?
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
You will find that a substantial amount of BT's FTTC rollout is in cabled areas where they have competition. The non-cabled areas are left to last as they donít need to worry as they have no competition.
Is it possible that BT have the same reasons for not deploying to these areas as VM?
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
or by making the Local loop independent of BT. This could be by making it a separate BT company. A key part being it would not be able to provide service to end users.
Like Openreach?


Eats shoots and leaves.
Standard User GMAN98
(committed) Wed 31-Aug-11 20:32:28
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
The biggest impediment to getting HS Broadband rolled out to 90% of the UK is the monopoly BT has in the local loop (excluding cabled areas)


Is it the biggest impediment? I'd say the biggest is that people don't want to pay the true cost for high speed broadband and a lot of people don't even need it, the majority still use it for the basics, browsing and email.

BT has a monopoly on the local loop, well as it owns it... sure they do. At least there are wholesale options available unlike its biggest rival covering 50% of the country (Virgin Cable)

Everyone is so quick to blame BT for all their woes, there are other telco's in the country people need to start complaining to them instead of constantly moaning that BT aren't giving up their paid for assets for nothing so smaller ISP's can get an easy ride without having to invest themselves.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Sep-11 09:43:41
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
2015 2Meg 100% - already done, just need to subsidise access to KA band services. Fortunately most appear to be trying something different.

Well aware of the speed standing, but as I've said in public and private the way the scoring for evaluating best in Europe means the 2015 target is a done deal. Inclusion of retail competition in the scoring means UK will win.

What previous targets has the government missed with regards to broadband? The 2012 USC was moved, not missed and could still be hit if they wanted.

BT/VM are only interested in 100% where the cost between average connections and these harder to reach areas can be subsidised, and they have said as much to the committees in the last year or two.

BTW 11Mbps is not the target superfast for BDUK is >24Mbps i.e. explicitly excludes ADSL2+

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Sep-11 14:11:54
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: panda] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by panda:
So why is cable not available in these areas?

VM is a public company and the board are answerable to the company shareholders. They have no obligation to provide a service anywhere at all so they only do so where their research has shown they can get a return on investment. The research must have been over optimistic in the past as VM are carrying debts of ~ £6Bn. Don't expect a big resurgence in their enthusiasm to dig up new streets and fit ducting any time soon as they simply can't afford the investment.
Standard User smurf46
(member) Thu 01-Sep-11 16:58:44
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
. . . by making the Local loop independent of BT. This could be by making it a separate BT company. A key part being it would not be able to provide service to end users.


Upgrading or replacing the local loop is always going to be a question of commercial investment or public subsidy (which the government has chosen to address locally through BDUK). EDIT: Cable was the great white hope of the 1990s but had to be wholly privately financed so it stalled when the investment dried up. The UK's unique combination of regulatory induced competition and selective price controls (which perhaps have benefited BT's market share) introduce uncertainty which is the bugbear of investment.

There seems to me to be a separate issue of lines not achieving they speeds they should. Rather than OR not dealing with the consumer, perhaps it should. If my (competitive supplier) gas or electricity supply goes down I talk direct to the distribution company that owns the infrastructure not the supplier, or Transco for gas. The market works; in those cases where the infrastructure owner doesn't deal with the consumer: rail and telecomms, it doesn't seem to. A coincidence? Any comments? Virgin media of course is a marriage of ISP and infrastructure owner, as is now being considered for rail!

I note incidentally that BT might in part be addressing this issue with Wholesale FTTC where BT provide and maintain the modem, meaning presumably that they can exercise control over the whole of the connection between exchange, cabinet DSLAM and CP modem, and hopefully better identify and deal with service issues/faults than with the split responsibility tripartite structure of ADSL.

No-one was ever convinced by what I said, but by what they understood.

Edited by smurf46 (Thu 01-Sep-11 19:32:34)

Standard User epyon
(member) Thu 01-Sep-11 17:20:38
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Re: Virgin Media (Cable) - Staying Urban


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Well in my city of 200k+

theres no vm cable only LLU and 21CN

i ask virgin the reason for this and they said that it would be to expensive =/

now im city has a cable network that has covrage in most of the city but the company went bankrupt

which is a shame i thought VM could/would of bought that up but its probably nowhere near as simple as that no doubt.

funny enough though allot of shops here sell cable routers ......o_0

Though if VM did ever come here in the near future i could easily see myself going for the 100MB package.

BE*Unlimited
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by epyon (Thu 01-Sep-11 17:21:49)

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