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Standard User number45
(newbie) Fri 13-Jan-12 23:28:45
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Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


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Yesterday TalkTalk came touting for busines and as their phone and broadband package sounded good we ordered. I'm taking a few days of the cooling off period to make sure it is a better deal though. I don't want to start a 12 month contract then realise it isn't as good as it sounds.

It's the Plus package we've signed up to. Which as far as I can see is better than the plusnet equivalent as it is unlimited downloads and up to 24 Meg for more or less the same price.

Couple of questions though. I believe my line will change to a LLU connection. The dummy's explanation I was given was that the BT lines are spaghetti junction but with TalkTalk, on their part of the exchange I'd essentially get my own line. Is this what LLU.

I'm only around half a mile from the exchange and with plusnet I've always got good download speed except for a bit of slow down during peak times (usually between 15 - 17Mbps).

With the LLU connection will I (or should I) get the same if not higher speeds. And will my upload speed increase as well.

TalkTalk said they could sort everything out with BT but I would need to cancel my plusnet contract. Today I received an email from plusnet saying there is a cancellation order (PSTN cease) on the line and I should call them if I wish to cancel. When should I do this. The email gives the date the cancellation is due to happen, should I wait until then orwait until the talktalk service is actually live (need broadband for work so can't have any downtime). Will I need to request a MAC code to change or is it not necessary as the phone line is changing.

Finally, can I switch back from TalkTalk. From reading a few posts on some forums I assume it will be yes but with some downtime as the line would need switched back or to an alternate provider.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 13-Jan-12 23:53:44
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: number45] [link to this post]
 
See my What is LLU? page. Yours on TalkTalk will be MPF as explained there.
The dummy's explanation I was given was that the BT lines are spaghetti junction but with TalkTalk, on their part of the exchange I'd essentially get my own line.
Garbage. The slight difference in wiring, (and I've just spotted a possible small error on that page), is that instead of the line from you being connected to a BT Wholesale MSAN it will be connected to a TalkTalk one, (so no spaghetti change there), but the phone line the other side of the MSAN may not need connecting back to anywhere - that's the bit I may have wrong on the page, as I say there there will be a phone connection back to the Main Distribution Frame. It may perhaps be connected direct into the TT backhaul within their MSAN, rather than back to the MDF as it is with BT Wholesale.
With the LLU connection will I (or should I) get the same if not higher speeds.
I would guess considerably slower. The standard sync-time noise margin on TT is either 9dB or 12dB. I thought it was 9dB from what a neighbour has, but a post today by someone who should know made me wonder if it is 12dB. Plusnet default is 6dB. If yours is any higher immediately after a sync then there is a reason we need to know about.

As you are on ADSL2+ now and will be when on TT, the loss per 3dB is between 750mbps and 1200kbps, unless there is something extremely fancy going on somewhere.
And will my upload speed increase as well.
Dunno. I'd expect it to be the same.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 14-Jan-12 11:11:03
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: number45] [link to this post]
 
If you do move, ensure you DO CANCEL with plusnet as I have seen a few cases where people have been billed after leaving plusnet. Which when it comes out is due to THEM not cancelling and relying on the new line provider to do this. While the line/adsl is moved over, untill you contact them they can still argue that as they have not spoken to them all is OK.

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Standard User number45
(newbie) Sat 14-Jan-12 14:39:57
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
With the LLU connection will I (or should I) get the same if not higher speeds.
I would guess considerably slower. The standard sync-time noise margin on TT is either 9dB or 12dB. I thought it was 9dB from what a neighbour has, but a post today by someone who should know made me wonder if it is 12dB. Plusnet default is 6dB. If yours is any higher immediately after a sync then there is a reason we need to know about.

As you are on ADSL2+ now and will be when on TT, the loss per 3dB is between 750mbps and 1200kbps, unless there is something extremely fancy going on somewhere.
And will my upload speed increase as well.
Dunno. I'd expect it to be the same.

Could that be changed by TalkTalk if I found it to be the case. I have a pretty low noise margin normally (~3dB) although never noticed what it was when first connected.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 14-Jan-12 15:40:28
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: number45] [link to this post]
 
I don't know. I sugegst you ask in the TalkTalk forum, as TalkTalk sales/support on the phone will either not know what you are talking about and will admit that, or will not know what you are talking about and will say yes because that is obviously the answer you want.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 14-Jan-12 15:43:50
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Correction!

A reliable TalkTalk LLU user informs me that
TalkTalk have their own version of DLM (which can be turned off, upon user's request) and the smallest target SNRM is 6 dB. The full spectrum of target SRNM ranges from 6 to 15 dB.
So yes it can be set to 6dB, but not 3dB.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 14-Jan-12 15:44:10)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Jan-12 16:46:28
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The slight difference in wiring, (and I've just spotted a possible small error on that page), is that instead of the line from you being connected to a BT Wholesale MSAN it will be connected to a TalkTalk one, (so no spaghetti change there), but the phone line the other side of the MSAN may not need connecting back to anywhere - that's the bit I may have wrong on the page, as I say there there will be a phone connection back to the Main Distribution Frame. It may perhaps be connected direct into the TT backhaul within their MSAN, rather than back to the MDF as it is with BT Wholesale.

So, the existing line between the MDF and the punter won't change. (You know this).

The existing jumpers go, BT Wholesale dial tone to SMPF in block, on a 'tie pair' to the DSLAM, back on a seperate tie pair, dial tone and broadband appear on the SMPF out block, jumper to the bar pair, hey presto.

Now with full LLU MPF, the dial tone and broadband signal come from the LLU equipment in the MUA (multi user area, love those acronyms) via an Openreach tie cable to the frame, from here a jumper is run to the TAM in block (Openreach's test equipment), and from the TAM out block to the bar pair.

Got that, good, pick up thy jumper rod, reel and make your way to the nearest exchange to start work Monday ! smile

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 14-Jan-12 17:14:55
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Got that, good, pick up thy jumper rod, reel and make your way to the nearest exchange to start work Monday ! smile
Errr, nope! smile. However it looks to be more comprehensive than some of the newbie engineers get. wink

I might check a few things in PM some other day, if you don't mind, as I'd like to be sure what I'm talking about.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 14-Jan-12 17:22:27
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I might check a few things in PM some other day, if you don't mind,

No worries, Bob.
I'd like to be sure what I'm talking about.

Me too ! smile

Standard User GeeTee
(committed) Sat 14-Jan-12 17:24:03
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Re: Changing from Plusnet to TalkTalk


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The slight difference in wiring, (and I've just spotted a possible small error on that page), is that instead of the line from you being connected to a BT Wholesale MSAN it will be connected to a TalkTalk one, (so no spaghetti change there), but the phone line the other side of the MSAN may not need connecting back to anywhere - that's the bit I may have wrong on the page, as I say there there will be a phone connection back to the Main Distribution Frame. It may perhaps be connected direct into the TT backhaul within their MSAN, rather than back to the MDF as it is with BT Wholesale.

So, the existing line between the MDF and the punter won't change. (You know this).

The existing jumpers go, BT Wholesale dial tone to SMPF in block, on a 'tie pair' to the DSLAM, back on a seperate tie pair, dial tone and broadband appear on the SMPF out block, jumper to the bar pair, hey presto.

Now with full LLU MPF, the dial tone and broadband signal come from the LLU equipment in the MUA (multi user area, love those acronyms) via an Openreach tie cable to the frame, from here a jumper is run to the TAM in block (Openreach's test equipment), and from the TAM out block to the bar pair.

Got that, good, pick up thy jumper rod, reel and make your way to the nearest exchange to start work Monday ! smile


Where's the TAM in the SMPF setup?
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