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Standard User rainbowarehouse
(newbie) Tue 07-Feb-12 22:30:53
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Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

I'm at an absolute loss here with Orange. I moved into my apartment in Birmingham B5 1st October last year. 10th October my Orange broadband was activated (BT phone line only, no fibre, despite being a brand new building).

The connection has been fairly solid for almost all the time I've been here. Had some teething issues in the form of a sporadic connection for the first couple of weeks, but that's to be expected and since then, no problems.

The last week or so however, in the evening while playing on xbox live (COD, BF3) I started suffering lag issues. It wasn't in the form of consistent high latency, but occasional (or not so occasional) lag spikes, that red bar me in COD, or cause huge rubber banding in BF3.

To check what was going on, I installed 'PingTester' on one of my computers. Wired desktop PC, Win 7.

I started pinging 'ping.thinkbroadband.com' and noticed that once every 5 to 30 seconds (it varies quite a bit) I would get a time out. Straight away, I made sure to eliminate anything my end such as:

- Restarting the router
- Turned off the wireless antenna on the router
- Tried a different port and wire
- Tried pinging from the Mac OS network utility (Airport Wireless)
- Even tried my other router (long story, they sent one of their new BrightBoxs because I complained about the constant wifi drop outs of the NETGEAR DGN1000. Also useful FYI, I noticed that when using the BrightBox, any video streaming to a wireless client would cause huge 300/400/500 ms spikes for my wired PC, no such problems exist when using the NETGEAR router.

I called Orange, hoping they would offer me some assistance. I got through to the usual outsourced call centre and spoke to someone who didn't know what latency was. At all. Hung up, tried again. This time I got someone who was very helpful in eliminating the same causes that I had, but we still reached a point where there was nothing he could do.

I gave up and kept pinging. What was interesting was that as it got later and later, the frequency of dropped packets got lower and lower. Until, by about 2 am. The connection was consistent again. Although there was still a packet or two being lost here and there.

Today, I checked periodically while in my flat, seemed fine. Would still have occasional packet loss but maybe 3 or 4 every 1000.

Then at around 10 past 8 this evening, while playing Battlefield 3 with a friend, I got completely disconnected from EA online. I went over to my PC (still pinging) and saw that the packet dropping had started. I was sending a packet at a max rate of 1 packet every 10 ms (time-out set to 5000ms). and was losing around 3 or 4%. Here is a link to the text file containing the ping info for when it was at its worst. The ping interval is 10ms, 32 bytes, with a time out of 5000ms:

PingTester Text Export

Restarted the router, problem continues. Xbox unplayable online, PC ping tester losing packets intermittently (sometimes one every second or so for 5 seconds, sometimes only 1 loss in 10 seconds)

I called Orange again, explained that I was having the same issue and after all the standard call centre pamphlet suggestions I got fed up and hung up.

They've now 'tested' my line twice and both times have said it is clean, even when I'm losing packets right as I talk to them.

Is there any way to find out what the problem is myself?

I have my own theory which is that as my building was mostly empty when I moved in, the exchange for my line was fairly underwhelmed, but as more and more people have moved in and got their internet up and running, this is no longer the case. And the packet loss I'm experiencing rises and falls with the peak usage times because of this.

This is unbelievably frustrating for me, since I consider myself capable enough to have worked out that there is nothing I can do my end, and it is a shortcoming in the network somewhere which I am unable to fix.

Any advice or troubleshooting suggestions would be greatly appreciated at this point.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this,

Toby
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 07-Feb-12 22:44:32
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Re: Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[re: rainbowarehouse] [link to this post]
 
Does the same thing happen if you ping other sites?



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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 07-Feb-12 22:58:31
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Re: Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, tried google.com/.co.uk, youtube.com, yahoo.com

All the same. Although, when pinging two IP's simultaneously (ping.thinkbroadband.com and www.google.com) I don't always get an even number or dropped packets. But this could be down to the fact that a successive ping wont be sent until the previous is received, or until it times out.


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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 08-Feb-12 15:01:07
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Re: Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[re: rainbowarehouse] [link to this post]
 
try WinMTR to see where in the chain the packets get dropped, that may help zoom in to where the issue is

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User rainbowarehouse
(newbie) Wed 08-Feb-12 17:04:24
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Re: Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply. Will download WinMTR and run it for a while now to get a result when my line is fine (i.e outside of peak hours) then run it later when I start getting packet loss.

I was actually going to run a traceroute to find the IP of the first gateway after my router and then ping that during peak hours to see if I still get packet loss, as this would undoubtedly put the ball in Orange's court.

When I'm running WinMTR tonight, where would the packets have to go missing in order for Orange to be accountable? I know, for example, that if I tested a server in South Africa and packets were lost somewhere along Africa's west coast, it would be nothing to do with Orange.

On a more progressive note, after some reading up on Ofcom's website, I now at least have some idea of what I'm going to do about this. If I have the same problem tonight, I will call them to make a formal complaint, on the basis that I have been through their 'technical support' process 3 times now with no progress towards a solution. Once I have lodged this complaint, by my understanding they have 8 weeks to rectify it. After those 8 weeks have passed, if the fault still exists, I can take my complaint to their ADR scheme (CISAS in this case).

Now really this is the last thing I want to happen, or at least, I'd really rather not have to wait that long, but hopefully if I call and make them aware of my issue this way, they might actually take notice.

On a side not, I just wanted to ask whether what I'm experiencing would be considered a 'fault'?
Reading around on various forums, it seems most people consider that ANY packet loss at all (at least within a reasonable distance) is unacceptable, but my concern is that Orange might be able to argue that it is within guidelines or acceptable limits or whatever. Similar to the way flat screen manufacturers are allowed a certain number of dead pixels before a screen is classed as faulty, whereas most consumers (myself included) would completely disagree and be unhappy with even a single dead pixel...
Standard User rainbowarehouse
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 20:03:33
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Re: Urgently need advice - Packet loss, Orange zero help


[re: rainbowarehouse] [link to this post]
 
I followed your suggestion and according to WinMTR it is my router that is the culprit. However, it might be that I have misunderstood the results as I am not entirely sure how to read a traceroute ping report. It is also worth mentioning that I get the same results from WinMTR even when my line is performing fine when online gaming, video streaming or just using the internet in general.

I also tried pinging my router directly (192.168.0.1) using Pingtester at intervals of 10ms, while running WinMTR using ping.thinkbroadband.com. I noticed zero packet loss when sending nearly 100000 packets to my router directly with Pingtester. but would still get around 9% packet loss from my router using WinMTR.

Below is a picture of Pingtester pinging 192.168.0.1 and the text report from WinMTR pinging ping.thinkbroadband.com. These tests were run simultaneously. Both the results are consistent whether or not they run individually or simultaneously. The results are also the same pinging with 32 bytes or a more real world packet size of 512 bytes.

PingTester screen snip

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| WinMTR statistics |

| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

| 192.168.0.1 - 10 | 1721 | 1565 | 0 | 0 | 30 | 1 |

| 213.1.112.120 - 1 | 3065 | 3063 | 15 | 18 | 51 | 20 |

| 213.1.115.238 - 0 | 3109 | 3109 | 15 | 21 | 242 | 17 |

| 213.1.67.206 - 1 | 3121 | 3120 | 19 | 22 | 109 | 25 |

| 213.1.67.252 - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 20 | 23 | 115 | 21 |

| 213.1.79.18 - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 20 | 23 | 154 | 30 |

| 87.237.20.244 - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 20 | 26 | 120 | 21 |

|bundle-ether1.lontr1.London.opentransit.net - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 21 | 25 | 61 | 21 |

| te1-1.lonse1.London.opentransit.net - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 20 | 23 | 114 | 21 |

| abovenet-2.GW.opentransit.net - 0 | 3128 | 3128 | 20 | 25 | 119 | 25 |

| ge-5-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net - 1 | 3120 | 3119 | 21 | 24 | 97 | 21 |

| above-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net - 0 | 3129 | 3129 | 21 | 26 | 228 | 22 |

| gi0-24-10-star1.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net - 1 | 3120 | 3119 | 21 | 25 | 117 | 23 |

| www.thinkbroadband.com - 0 | 3128 | 3128 | 21 | 24 | 74 | 22 |

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