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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 20:41:03
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Routerstats Diagnosis


[link to this post]
 
Have a look at today's stats:

http://www.camieabz.co.uk/snrdrop.png

Now the connection has been solid for six days, so it's not that the sync has been too high. Router is a Technicolor tg582n. This is a recurring problem which is more likely with higher syncs. Usually any drops start around 5pm and loss of connection might be 7.30-8.30pm.

So today is different. Likely causes?

Router?
Local contention?
ISP (Plusnet) network?
Regional node (Edinburgh or Dundee perhaps)?
Heavy usage in the UK for some reason?

I get bugged that I can get 15.3 Meg sync for six days, or 16 Meg for three days, but at other times only 15.5 Meg for a night, then back to 15 Meg.

Ta.

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 20:58:55
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Can't say what it is, only what I think it cannot be.

It is solely a matter of the communication between the modem on the DSLAM line card and the one in your router. That has to exclude WBC nodes, even WBC backhaul, and the Plusnet network that connects to that backhaul at a node.

Plusnet could disconnect your session, but that would only cause loss of internet access, not sync.

Local contention, ummm. Not the volume of traffic as such I wouldn't have thought. But possibly increased crosstalk noise due to it and/or a creaking line card. (Lots of lines/modems on it).

I think it won't be on your list. Who nearby has been on holiday and came back today? But why wouldn't that make it fall over earlier, in the same way as the decline started earlier crazy?

What was the state of things before your 6-day stable period. (You confuse me a bit by starting the paragraph with solid for 6 days, and ending with usually loses connection by 8:30pm). Do you mean that behaviour stopped for six days? That would definitely suggest to me someone somewhere had been on holiday.

Is this seasonal? Or weekdays but worse at weekends? Harping on about hols again, central heating at weekday and weekend settings, but off for six days and on immediately on arrival home.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:20:16
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Examples:

Sync at 16,100 for three days then it drops around 16:30 and cuts around 19:30 (in all these times give or take an hour - suffice it to say I'm assuming the kids home from school (around the country) increases latency for all, and then the adults home from work tips it over the edge).

Other times it lasts only for the night if syncing that high. Generally my stable sync was 15,500ish, but through July/August it was closer to 14,900-15,200. I did contact Plusnet about the profile not updating and it was sorted, and all of a sudden I synced at a stable 16,100 for three days, then it popped back to 15,300 and I've not been doing much this week in the way of watching the stats.

I only noticed earlier today that it was at 2.7dB in the early afternoon, which is unusual, especially for 15,300 sync. So I started watching it. It finally gave in five minutes before I posted the OP at 1.6dB

Is the router doing well holding the sync, or would a good router hold it better? Bear in mind, my default SNR is 3.0dB for all these sync speeds. In fact, I took some screen shots at the time (I was impressed at my line rate, and it always helps to keep records).

Stats

BT Speedtest Profile

Dated the 26th, so two days before the 15,300 sync. Looking at my BQM, there's no pattern of latency. A week of busy nights, then a week of quite nights, and certainly no pattern particular to Thursdays.

I can accept that my stable sync won't be 16,000 (so why did it stay stable for two days?), but I want to have a decent stable sync worked out. It seems there's no pattern without going to sub 15,000 and that's a little silly, considering I've had 6 days of 15,300...

In a perfect world, I would migrate out to a smaller ISP, migrate to another and get the info (i.e. it is / is not the ISP). Any ISPs willing to pay for the comparison testing? wink

I could throw £100 or so at a top router, but what if there's no big change?

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.


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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:25:48
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
P.S. - My BQM for the past 24 hours:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/aab9d0487f8...

Note the latency during the previous night. Now the SNR did drop from 3.4dB at around 17:00hrs in steps to a low of 2.8dB where it recovered at around 22:30hrs.

Today, there's not the same latency, and yet it dropped far more. confused

Oh, and I'm not a heavy user.

Edit: Pro package too.

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.

Edited by camieabz (Thu 04-Oct-12 21:26:13)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:39:51
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Note the latency during the previous night. Now the SNR did drop from 3.4dB at around 17:00hrs in steps to a low of 2.8dB where it recovered at around 22:30hrs.

Today, there's not the same latency, and yet it dropped far more. confused


The latency last night (the yellow part, with a few blue bits) is indeed mostly down to the Plusnet network and the load there. The actual loads depend on the gateway you're connected to, so it can vary some.

Here are some others you can compare against: Plusnet graphs.

This kind of latency change is going to have no influence on the quality of your modem's synchronisation, or vice-versa.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:43:14
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I would answer with the same points, mostly: Whatever this is, it's local to you, no further away than the exchange.

I'd also ask about the weather, and how that has changed over that period - particularly with wind & rain.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:44:31
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
The RouterStats graph is showing 17,300kbps, not 15,300kbps?

I suspect a plasma TV in the vicinity. Still harping on holiday as the reason for the six-day stability, come home, maybe central heating as I suggested before, then 8:30 plasma TV on. In other words, multiple possible causes, these being two likely ones.

What does the graph following that one show? How about putting a link to the live one in your visible sig. (I must do that now I've just got a static IP and set one up. I used to have it on O2 and IDNet. Easiest way to check it yourself as well!).

Is it possible to move your router to a long way away from where it is now? Preferably the opposite side of the house.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:56:26
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Sync at 16,100 for three days then it drops around 16:30 and cuts around 19:30 (in all these times give or take an hour - suffice it to say I'm assuming the kids home from school (around the country) increases latency for all, and then the adults home from work tips it over the edge).

My parents had a problem, where SNR would drop at around 4PM, and sync would start dropping anywhere between 4 and 6. This would go on until around 9PM, when the sync would mostly recover, and the SNR would then keep recovering until around midnight.

My assumption was that there was a mix of behaviour: Night drawing in would aid interference (like an AM radio) in general. And that between 4 and 9, more neighbours would be adding crosstalk effects.

I *did* get things better by removal of the ring wire, and properly setting up the master - at least I stopped the sync losses that way. I was never able to remove the SNR drops entirely though.

I did contact Plusnet about the profile not updating and it was sorted, and all of a sudden I synced at a stable 16,100 for three days, then it popped back to 15,300 and I've not been doing much this week in the way of watching the stats.

That'll be a red herring - there's nothign that Plusnet could do about the profile in their systems that would affect your sync stability, or sync speed.

Is the router doing well holding the sync, or would a good router hold it better? Bear in mind, my default SNR is 3.0dB for all these sync speeds. In fact, I took some screen shots at the time (I was impressed at my line rate, and it always helps to keep records).

While it was an early time to see SNR drops due to the overnight atmospheric effects, you can normally expect those to be anywhere up to 2-3dB. It's more amazing the the router is using a target of 3dB. But it isn't a surprise to see teh connection going at 1-2dB.

I can accept that my stable sync won't be 16,000 (so why did it stay stable for two days?), but I want to have a decent stable sync worked out. It seems there's no pattern without going to sub 15,000 and that's a little silly, considering I've had 6 days of 15,300...

It seems like there's something about your line, or your neighbourhood, that induces intermittent interference with your line. They're never easy to identify.

I could throw £100 or so at a top router, but what if there's no big change?

If there's genuine interference, then it is unlikely a top router would make much difference.

I reckon most of the money for a "top" router goes on the bells & whistles, and not on making it sync any better. That's still a fundamental part buried within the chipset.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:57:33
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The RouterStats graph is showing 17,300kbps, not 15,300kbps?


Right hand side of the graph for sync. Left for SNR.

Click my sig or in my profile. Live graph there.

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.

Edited by camieabz (Thu 04-Oct-12 21:58:10)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Thu 04-Oct-12 21:58:36
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Re: Routerstats Diagnosis


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The RouterStats graph is showing 17,300kbps, not 15,300kbps?

Look on the right-hand side wink
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