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Standard User TrishaH
(committed) Wed 02-Jan-13 18:50:56
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Fibre or not....


[link to this post]
 
I originally intended getting FTTC when I moved to Zen (Lite) in November 2011, but by the time I got connected on ADSL and had a new socket & cabling installed, and got a Billion 7800n, I was so pleased with the ADSL (later ADSL2+) I decided to stay with it as stability and reasonable speed was all I needed with working at home.

Some people (me included) got moved last summer because of the olympics, and can't be moved back.

I noticed the difference as slow loading sites and slow to dowload email. It did improve a bit but I still get the slow response for websites and some pages. Interleaving also came on in June, and the noise margin reset early November.
More recently, I think I was moved again in November because although I have the fastest connection/sync I've ever had: ADSL 1092 / 9349 kbps, I still get odd delays with web pages loading and sometimes, slow to download email. It's not terribly slow, but not as fast as it used to be before summer.

My ping also went up from 25 on most Speedtests to 45 most of the time, but the same Speedtest I've always used gives me just over 8 down. (mostly 7.4 before).

My attenuation is 46 down, 28.8 up (pretty much what it's always been: NEALB exch), and the noise margins are on average 2.9 down 5.9 up during the day, 1.4/5.8 at night.

What I'd like to ask is, would my taking up the current Zen offer for installation of FTTC be likely improve the general overall stability and slow loading of websites at times ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 02-Jan-13 19:07:35
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: TrishaH] [link to this post]
 
All depends on the reason behind the slow website loading. If the said website is slow because it needs MegaBytes of data then a faster connection will help.

If the problem is DNS look up times, or the server hosting the website then fibre (FTTC) will make little or no difference.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TrishaH
(committed) Wed 02-Jan-13 19:36:04
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - it's a problem I didn't have before getting moved but that's as much as I know really. Something must have caused interleaving to begin too.
The slowness can happen with any website - sometimes fast to load, other times slight delay, odd times a little longer.

Not sure if these two tests would tell you anything -
I just used Visualware to do a test to my IP number and it gives green lights for all the reults.

But when I tried entering Zen.co.uk it had a couple of problems:
DNS lookup time was 404 ms. There could be problems with the DNS server on the otiginating network.
Hop 1 is responding in an erratic manner, varying between 30 and 258ms response time. Could be indicative of a problem at this point.
100% packet loss due to firewalls


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 02-Jan-13 19:41:32
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: TrishaH] [link to this post]
 
Hop 1 is usually your local router, try setting the PC to use the ZEN DNS servers, rather than the router, it may help things. If that does not help then try the google DNS servers 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 02-Jan-13 19:50:10
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: TrishaH] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TrishaH:
I originally intended getting FTTC when I moved to Zen (Lite) in November 2011, but by the time I got connected on ADSL and had a new socket & cabling installed, and got a Billion 7800n, I was so pleased with the ADSL (later ADSL2+) I decided to stay with it as stability and reasonable speed was all I needed with working at home.

Some people (me included) got moved last summer because of the olympics, and can't be moved back.

I noticed the difference as slow loading sites and slow to dowload email. It did improve a bit but I still get the slow response for websites and some pages. Interleaving also came on in June, and the noise margin reset early November.
More recently, I think I was moved again in November because although I have the fastest connection/sync I've ever had: ADSL 1092 / 9349 kbps
What "moves" were those please TrishaH? One of them perhaps ADSL to ADSL2+, but what was the other. And in what order?
I still get odd delays with web pages loading and sometimes, slow to download email. It's not terribly slow, but not as fast as it used to be before summer.
This is very odd - seemingly associated with the first move. Which is why I'd like to know what was what. The end result of ADSL2+ at that sort of level should have been a hardly noticeable faster website loading and for email you shouldn't really have noticed any difference at all.
My ping also went up from 25 on most Speedtests to 45 most of the time, but the same Speedtest I've always used gives me just over 8 down. (mostly 7.4 before).
The ping increase is almost certainly caused by interleaving being turned on.
My attenuation is 46 down, 28.8 up (pretty much what it's always been: NEALB exch), and the noise margins are on average 2.9 down 5.9 up during the day, 1.4/5.8 at night.
That implies your sync-time noise margin has been lowered to 3dB, as that's a very high sync speed for the attenuation.

It does seem that in some cases that lowering of the noise margin can be counter-productive, and the DLM has been over-optimistic. The lowering happens automatically with the latest version. I'm a bit concerned that you may be getting packet loss or errors that aren't bad enough to revert you to 6dB, but bad enough to degrade the real-life perfomance. Despite (in fact because of) the higher sync speed.
What I'd like to ask is, would my taking up the current Zen offer for installation of FTTC be likely improve the general overall stability and slow loading of websites at times ?
Likely, yes. certainly, hard to tell with the information we have at the moment. (I haven't gone back to past posts). ... OK, just read the "Ping" thread.

I have a feeling you have some sort of small fault, possibly on the line card at the exchange (which FTTC should cure, but if it is your end it won't) - but this all doesn't add up.

Re FTTC itself, samknows doesn't recognise the code you give for the exchange. Better anyway for FTTC checking would be your postcode. Here for more opinions, PM would do.

I've just checked the Zen site. I see you only have till Sunday to decide. But!

I expect you went to Zen for the reassurance of their reputation for performance and support. Exactly why I went to IDNet (for FTTC) from O2 LLU. A year on, with trembling fingers, I migrated to Plusnet FTTC for a hugely lower cost. I have no regrets whatsoever. Have a quick look at their website once you've answered my questions smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User TrishaH
(committed) Wed 02-Jan-13 20:09:20
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'll happily try the change you suggest, but will answer Bob's questions first if that's OK.
I'll need to ask you how to try these DNS servers anyway smile

I just tried another traceroute tester and was able to copy/paste rsults in case it helps - this is my own ip number:
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to x[xx-xx-xx-xxx.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 0 0 0 206.123.64.42 -
2 0 0 0 64.124.196.225 xe-4-2-0.er2.dfw2.us.above.net
3 0 3 0 64.125.27.81 xe-0-1-0.cr2.dfw2.us.above.net
4 5 5 6 64.125.26.134 xe-1-2-0.cr2.iah1.us.above.net
5 32 32 32 64.125.30.54 xe-3-1-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net
6 37 36 37 64.125.26.110 xe-3-2-0.cr2.lga5.us.above.net
7 117 117 117 64.125.31.181 so-0-1-0.mpr2.ams5.nl.above.net
8 118 118 118 64.125.27.13 so-0-1-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net
9 128 118 137 64.125.30.129 so-2-0-0.mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net
10 118 118 118 64.125.24.218 xe-8-1-1.mpr2.lhr3.uk.above.net.24.125.64.in-addr.arpa
11 116 117 116 195.66.236.158 linx-2.zen.net.uk
12 117 116 116 62.3.80.42 ge-2-0-0-0.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk
13 123 123 123 62.3.80.46 ge-3-0-0-0.cr1.wh-man.zen.net.uk
14 123 125 123 62.3.80.198 ge-1-4-112.subs.dsl1.wh-man.zen.net.uk
15 150 150 149 xx.xx.xx.xxxxx-xx-xx-xxx.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk
Trace complete

...and this is by using Zen.co.uk:
TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 82.71.140.243 [www.zen.co.uk]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 0 0 0 206.123.64.42 -
2 0 0 0 64.124.196.225 xe-4-2-0.er2.dfw2.us.above.net
3 0 0 0 64.125.27.81 xe-0-1-0.cr2.dfw2.us.above.net
4 5 5 5 64.125.26.134 xe-1-2-0.cr2.iah1.us.above.net
5 32 32 32 64.125.30.54 xe-3-1-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net
6 36 36 36 64.125.26.110 xe-3-2-0.cr2.lga5.us.above.net
7 117 117 122 64.125.31.181 so-0-1-0.mpr2.ams5.nl.above.net
8 118 118 118 64.125.27.13 so-0-1-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net
9 118 118 153 64.125.30.129 so-2-0-0.mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net
10 118 130 118 64.125.24.218 xe-8-1-1.mpr2.lhr3.uk.above.net.24.125.64.in-addr.arpa
11 116 116 116 195.66.236.158 linx-2.zen.net.uk
12 121 129 122 62.3.80.77 ge-3-0-0-0.cr2.kp-leeds.zen.net.uk
13 122 134 122 62.3.80.97 ae0-0.dr2.sp-roch.zen.net.uk
14 122 122 123 62.3.80.93 ae1-0.dr1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk
15 122 122 123 62.3.81.162 port1-108.h1fw1.sp-roch.zen.net.uk
16 122 122 122 82.71.210.2 -
17 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
18 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
19 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
20 Timed out Timed out Timed out
Standard User TrishaH
(committed) Wed 02-Jan-13 20:39:58
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It was just before the olympics - visits to my own website show my server location, and prior to that, I was 'Westmister'.
Not long after I noticed the slowdowns I saw that I was showing as 'London'. It was about that time that I found that people had been moved because of the olympics.

In early November I lost connection and it synced at 8224/695 so I called Zen tech dept and he had me unplug the router. It reconnected at the right up speed but sometime during that night, it disconnected and re-connected at the 9349/1092 that I now have and the SNR had been re-set according to the Zen line data.
It was around then that my location showed up as 'United Kingdom' - hence me thinking it was another move. I had asked if I could be put on the pre-olympics connection I had but apparently they can't do that.
That disconnection in early November that resulted in the slower up speed could have been a BT maintenance thing as far as I recall, but I don't know what it was that they did.

(When I upgraded to ADSL2+ you did help check that I was getting the right speeds etc. There wasn't a lot of difference as you say.)

I did understand the ping once it had been explained here.

Twice Zen tech people have mentioned errors on the up part of the line but didn't seem overly concerned.

I'll PM my postcode. If I did go for the FTTC, it would be the lite version so wouldn't cost much more each month.
I do like Zen and they've never been anything but helpful if I've had queries or the initial difficulty (router), etc.
Just wish I had the same trouble free connection I had for the first 7 months! I'm one of those people that hate tinkering around with computer stuff, and hope that any changes just 'get on with it' as it were wink

Plusnet does look good, so if I ever do want to move, I'll likely choose them smile
Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 02-Jan-13 21:36:54
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: TrishaH] [link to this post]
 
Ask Zen if they can set a 6db target noise margin instead of 3. That might help you out if there's errors building up.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 02-Jan-13 22:31:38
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: TrishaH] [link to this post]
 
I was thinking along the same lines as ukhardy07, TrishaH.

Also is it possible you could post your router stats, incuding the error counts, once a day for three or four days please?

Do you have a fixed IP address? I think you will have. In which case a thinkbroadband BQM rolling graph as per the one in my sig might be useful - packet loss is what I would be looking for.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User TrishaH
(committed) Wed 02-Jan-13 23:46:36
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Re: Fibre or not....


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, asking for a re-set would be a good idea unless I take the fibre install offer.

Router stats for ADSL 5 minutes ago:
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode
ADSL2+
Upstream 1092
Downstream 9349
SNR Margin(Upstream) 5.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 1.8
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 26.8
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 46.0

Do you need anything else from stats ...and can you tell me where the errors are shown please?

I did a Freeola packet test: nil packet loss, Latency 40.423, Jitter 1

I got the BQM but that was 10-15 minutes ago and it's still blank ...ah! no it's not now ..there's a little bit of green and yellow on the right!
Do I paste the shared direct link ?
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