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Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Wed 16-Jan-13 10:03:24
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ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[link to this post]
 
Hi guys, please forgive what is about to follow, it may be a bit jumbled...

Starting in 2006 our exchange was ADSLMax enabled. We have never moved and have always got around 1Mbps. then almost a year ago it started getting worse and worse, most noteable symptom was poor sync. We always used to get instant sync, but now could go hours without anything. Talktalks solution was to send us a new router (D-Link 2680?) and sign us up to a new contract. This didnt really solve the problem, but we coped since we were too busy to really try.

Then starting in November I decided to have a really good go at them. after phoning them almost daily for weeks I eventually got past the "delete your user name and password and re-type it" phase, and they sent out a Cube engineer, who even had a Talktalk branded van! I couldnt believe it, I expected a BT engineer, and all I got was this guy who said himself he didnt know why he was here because its a fully BT only area!

Anyway, I'm going to gloss over the nightmare I had getting BT engineers to come out, in the end I had 2 Cube engineers, 2 BT line engineers, and 1 BT Broadband Boost engineer. Nothing really improved much until after the last BT Broadband guy. Purely by chance he had his tester box plugged in on an open line when we got a ringing, a crossed line. So he went away and changed us onto a spare pair from the exchange to us. When he left the speed was starting to creep back up, so I thought I would just speed the process up a bit, I got the SNR reset.

After 12hrs of no sync with the D-Link I decided to put our old Netgear DM111P back on, and after a wee while it synced at 1760kbps at 6db Margin. Unfortunately this modem is being so unreliable and crashing all the time, couldnt get more than 12hrs straight. Soo, I looked to the internet who seemed to say that the king of long lines is the Billion 7800n, which turned up yesterday.

So I go to set it all up, the DM111P was sitting at 1280kbps, 11db SNR after 8hrs connected. Plug in the Billion and nothing... eventually syncs up at 352kbps at 16db SNR, hopeless. But I persevere, I try the PhyR settings etc, no better, this morning I go back to the rubbish DM111P and it gets 576kbps! noise down to 14db...

Anyway, I'm away to plug the billion in, call for another SNR reset then leave it for a few days, but I'm not convinced, it seems the fabled broadcom isnt as much use as the netgears Infineon...

Actual line length is around 7.5km. talktalk say its attenuation is 79db, BT engineer says around 70db, netgear router says 69.5-70db (never changes more than that).
Router is plugged directly into the master socket (brand new), no extensions, one wired phone, and one cordless phone after 2 filters. electric fence clicking on the line, and a buzz, but it was like that when I got sync at 1760!

Before the router crashed it was fine at 1760, and at 1440, and at 1280. But I think the exchange took the crashes to be disconnections and shut the line down... But the billion even has a hell of a job syncing at 352kbps!

I really am at the end of my tether, all I want is a stable 1mbps.

Thanks, JF.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-Jan-13 10:08:23
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Can you post a clear set of the current statistics, attenuation, noise margin and connection for both downstream and upstream.

They may be in the post but scattered around, so hard to see what is the actual current state of play.

The interference you hear may be constant, but the ADSL signal is well beyond human hearing so may well have altered.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Wed 16-Jan-13 10:21:24
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi, sorry I did think it would be a bit tough going...

[img]http://tractorsearch.co.uk/images/images/16012013ne.jpg[/img]

I know it only says 2 mins there, but its on 2hrs now, and Down margin is on 14db now.

BT Wholesale speedtester tells me I've got 0.09Mbps Down and 0.34Mbps Up, IP profile is on the lowest setting at 135.

Thanks, JF.


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 16-Jan-13 11:01:07
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
?
What's that link supposed to show? Looks like a search engine with 5 lines of results for searches done today.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Wed 16-Jan-13 11:20:27
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Clicking on any of the query links, e.g. 526, gives a Netgear statistics image.

Tony
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Wed 16-Jan-13 11:38:25
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
oh, really sorry, it works fine on this pc, but I just checked it on another and see what you mean, just thought it would be easier than trying to type it out...

Down:
Line Rate - 544kbps
Attainable Line Rate - 704kbps
Noise Margin - 12.8dB
Line Attenuation - 69.6dB
Output Power - 15.8dB
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) - 18
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) - 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) - 3.600
D (interleave depth) - 8

Up:
Line Rate - 448kbps
Attainable Line Rate - 788kbps
Noise Margin - 13.0dB
Line Attenuation - 31.5dB
Output Power - 12.4dB
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) - 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) - 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) - 3.750
D (interleave depth) - 8

if you need any more just let me know.

Thanks, JF.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-Jan-13 11:46:33
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Lots of noise margin so in theory could go faster, but the error counts show probably that there is a fair bit of intermittent noise and was probably still evident when it resynced.

18 errored seconds in just 161 seconds of uptime is not good.

Alas the line is very long, and with no requirement to provide broadband the long line length means openreach would probably not do much for you.

If on a responsive ISP it might be worth asking for a fixed speed profile, at 0.5 Meg or 1 Meg. As I suspect you are suffering badly from the old IP Profile system too.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 16-Jan-13 11:53:28
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheshire_man:
Clicking on any of the query links, e.g. 526, gives a Netgear statistics image.
LOL thanks.

As the original link had the IMG tags round it, the link itself ended in jpg, and the URL contains "images", I assumed it was a screenshot so didn't click anything.
Edit - typo.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 16-Jan-13 15:00:08)

Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Wed 16-Jan-13 12:00:33
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
UP time 3hrs 28mins 47secs

Statistics Downstream:
Line Rate - 544 kbps
Attainable Line Rate - 704 kbps
Noise Margin - 13.3 dB
Line Attenuation - 69.6 dB
Output Power - 15.8 dB
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) - 18
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) - 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) - 3.6000
D (interleave depth) - 8
Super Frame Errors - 1164
RS Correctable Errors - 12123
RS Uncorrectable Errors - 1
HEC Errors - 23
LCD Errors - 0
Total Cells - 13194876
Data Cells - 0
Total ES - 18
Total SES - 14
Total UAS - 67

Statistics Upstream:
Line Rate - 448 kbps
Attainable Line Rate - 788 kbps
Noise Margin - 13.0 dB
Line Attenuation - 31.5 dB
Output Power - 12.4 dB
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) - 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) - 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) - 3.7500
D (interleave depth) - 8
Super Frame Errors - 1164
RS Correctable Errors - 30144
RS Uncorrectable Errors - 0
HEC Errors - 816
LCD Errors - 0
Total Cells - 16042338
Data Cells - 598541
Total ES - 43
Total SES - 20
Total UAS - 202

I tried resetting it but the errors just seem to stick...
IP profiling system works fine, if the router stuck with the 1760 ish sync speed and not crashed I would have ended up with a 1.5Mbps profile. as it was I had a 1Meg profile at 1280kbps when I put the billion router on, things kinda fell apart after that.

Can't understand how DM111P V2 gets better sync speeds than the Billion 7800N, shame its so stupidly unstable (thr router).

Thanks, JF.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-Jan-13 12:18:51
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Re: ADSL, long lines and Talktalk nightmare...


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Different downstream line rate than before so line has had a drop.

You are it seems in the area of trading speed for stability

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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