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Standard User jp101
(newbie) Sun 27-Jan-13 14:37:46
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ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[link to this post]
 
Please help, I would appreciate some independent advice before going to BT Broadband ...

I have never had more than 1Mbit/s over the past 5 years, and over the past 3 months I am getting a constant maximum of 0.25Mbit/s ... just woeful.

I had assumed that being out in the country was the problem and too far from my exchange - in fact, I am at a fairly average distance from an ADSL2+ exchange.
I installed a new router thinking that my rather old router (not ADSL2 compatible) was the problem.
Needless to say there was no change with the new router (download still 0.25Mbit/s).
Interestingly, the upload speed is 1Mbit/s or thereabouts (on either router) – this makes no sense?

I plugged the router into the BT master socket (no splitters, minimal cable length), but still got 0.25Mbit/s.

My calculations agree with the router reported attenuation (see below) – 2.3Km x 1.4 X 13.8db/km = 44db.
My SNR Margin is 36dB (good?) and attainable rate reported = 7Mbit/s ... if only.
I have run like this for more than two weeks, but still I get 0.25Mbit/s download.
My old router (a Vigor 2600) was giving similar figures, probably little need to change it.

I checked with my next door neighbour who is getting 3.7Mbit/s.!!! Ouch.

Now that I have looked into broadband further on your site and others I feel a complete fool for not complaining years ago!

I just get the feeling that my line down in the exchange is plugged into some kind of tacky ‘splitter’ to divide by 16 (or something) because they have run out of sockets.
This would be a cheap trick. Is this fair or am I now being too cynical? Trust is at a low ebb.

My ISP provider is BT Broadband, ‘Business’/ADSL2+/no download limits (yes, what a laugh, I should be due compensation).
My router is a new Billion Bipac 7700N (ADLS2/2+ capable).
I am on Windows 7 (though not very relevant here).

Thanks for any advice,
Jim.

My local exchange (from the ‘broadband availability checker’), straight-line distance 2.3Km :-

Available Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
Featured Products
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 6.5 -- 3 to 8 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 6.5 Up to 1 3 to 8 Available
ADSL Max Up to 5 -- 3.5 to 7.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available


Router figures, Billion Bipac 7700N:-
I can get it to connect on ADSL or ADSL2+, the figures are even worse on the latter.

For ADSL

ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 366 60
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 450 295
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 119 124
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 7168 1132

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 288 1024 0 0


For ADSL2+

Mode: ADSL_2plus
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On Off
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 279 50
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 490 279
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 185 122
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6912 17310

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 283 798 0 0
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 27-Jan-13 15:11:00
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
Something odd here as the router reports

Attainable Rate (Kbps): 7168 1132

and has a noise margin of 28 or 36 dB downstream with an attenuation of 45 - 49 and 288 sync. Have you tried a different "new" router ? (I see you had an old G.dmt only one)

You should run the speedtest at http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ periodically as the results are clocked against your line if you go on to do the stage 2 test "Further Diagnostics"

When you say it's plugged in the master socket, is this to the front of the faceplate or in the test socket that is behind the lower half removeable faceplate ?

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics

Edited by yarwell (Sun 27-Jan-13 15:38:24)

Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Sun 27-Jan-13 15:17:47
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jp101:
My SNR Margin is 36dB (good?) and attainable rate reported = 7Mbit/s ... if only.


Your SNR should be 3dB, 6dB, 9dB or similar. If that is your SNR number, it's far, far too high. It should be 6dB as a default on ADSL2+

If however the 36dB is your attenuation, that is a good figure for getting 9-10 Meg speeds. Please double check that the 36dB value is SNR or attenuation.

In reply to a post by jp101:
My local exchange (from the ‘broadband availability checker’), straight-line distance 2.3Km :-


2.3km is in keeping with 36dB attenuation. I am 2.1km and have 32dB attenuation.

The rest of the number provided are a bit suspect. 0.1 this, and 0.1 that. I would be getting on to my ISP about the 36dB. If it is attenuation, you should be getting 9-10 Meg minimum. I get 11-12 Meg on 32dB. Sometimes as high at 13 Meg.

If that number is SNR, it needs to be adjusted to 6dB to see what happens. I have mine set to 3dB, while some people have to raise theirs to 9dB or higher, depending on the line quality. Jumps of three generally.

If you haven't yet, plug the router directly into the master socket's internal plug and get the line stats there. That will give us the live info, and omit any issues that your splitter/filter might be causing.

Ahh, just noticed yarwell's post. The 0.1 data provided shows Attn and SNR in other ways than I'm used to seeing. Makes a little more sense. Still...that 36dB SNR is confusing. confused

~ Camieabz ~

All Connection Data ~ Some plusnet links

mod'er·a'tion n.
Synonyms: temperance, restraint, modesty.

Edited by camieabz (Sun 27-Jan-13 15:19:38)


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 27-Jan-13 15:18:06
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
Ack! Rather grim.

The good news is whatever is the problem should be sortable. But you are probably right not to have bothered ring BT Help - though the Business one I believe is better than the ordinary one.

The attainable rate of 7Mbps looks about right, though I'd expect a connection of more like 6.5Mbps on G.DMT or ADSL2 and download speeds of over 5Mbps even at bad times. A bit less on ADSL2+. (That's because you are one of the many where ADSL2+ comes in with a higher attenuation, losing you speed at this line length frown ).

It is worth noting that you are on a WBC/ADSL2+ circuit, even though you can force it to ADSL (G.DMT). This is relevant as WBC hac a facility called Banding, where under certain circumstances the maximum connection speed is capped.

Your SNRM is far from good. However the fact that you have swapped routers a few times, plus the 283kbps connection speed implies to me that the WBC DLM has banded/capped you at 288kbps. That is what is forcing the SNRM so high from the normal 6dB. And nope, they haven't shared your line with 15 others smile. (I assume that was a joke born out of suppressed hysteria).

I think from the way you have presented the line stats you also have access to the error counts, like this:-

Max:    Upstream rate = 14739 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63592 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 14933 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54013 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.3             6.0
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.6            6.8
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0
B:              63              237
M:              1               1
T:              64              64
R:              16              16
S:              0.0377          0.5070
L:              16978           4008
D:              857             1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
                        Counters
                        Path 0
OHF:            2096577101              2067058
OHFErr:         943             5900
RS:             3110844517              1276840
RSCorr:         998917537               113231
RSUnCorr:       55973           0

                        Path 0
HEC:            16104           0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    205158669               0
Data Cells:     240591789               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             207             4882
SES:            0               0
UAS:            19              19
AS:             3808414

                        Path 0
INP:            3.00            0.00
PER:            1.80            8.11
delay:          8.00            0.00
OR:             106.11          30.57

Bitswap:        1637198         387046

Total time = 1 days 1 hours 53 min 54 sec
FEC:            998917537               113231
CRC:            943             5900
ES:             207             4882
SES:            0               0
UAS:            19              19
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
A look at those would help. If they aren't too bad then contacting BT_Care who visit these forums would be a good idea - we can give you the contact email address. If they are horrendous, which is possible, that probably points to something on your property, so it would be pointess contacting them until we cure that.

So see if you can post those stats, and also have a look at the Ring/Bell wire, High SNRM and Miscellaneous nasties in my Troubleshooting section. See if anything there applies to your setup.
Edit - typo.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 27-Jan-13 15:20:01)

Standard User jp101
(newbie) Sun 27-Jan-13 16:09:19
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
Thanks folks for the ideas so far, here are some more figures with error counts - doesn’t look like there are many errors?

I am thinking that the ‘high’ reported SNR Margin is because the line is ‘capped’ at 0.288Mbit/s and can actually do a lot, lot more than this??

If the line is ‘capped’, why would this be?

Again thanks for any help...
Jim

Billion BIPAC 7700N
Statistics -- xDSL

Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 367 70
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 445 295
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 119 125
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 7104 1116

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 288 992 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 10 32 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 4 0 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 4.00 2.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 4 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 4.00 2.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.18 0.00 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 67210283 67210283 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 18987 0 0 0
RS Words: 83444564 0 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 9177 0 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 56679330 0 0 0
Data Cells: 2841843 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 437 0
Total SES: 433 0
Total UAS: 1288 1288
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 27-Jan-13 16:12:55
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
I am thinking that the ‘high’ reported SNR Margin is because the line is ‘capped’ at 0.288Mbit/s and can actually do a lot, lot more than this??

yes, that's the router telling you so with its attainable speed of 7M

Total ES: 437 0 says there were 437 seconds with errors since it was connected.

It may have been capped because of previous problems with instability, or it may be a mistake.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 27-Jan-13 16:45:25
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: jp101] [link to this post]
 
Yes re the capping. Why? - as yarwell says, can be because of something that happened a while ago.

Two things worry me.

First, you said before that you used to get 1Mbps, rather than the current 0.25Mbps. 1Mbps in itself was dreadful for your line length, so there is an ongoing or recurring problem.

Did you have a read of my Troubleshooting? I'd add to the list things like any form of home gym equipment. Or the electricity substation being one side of you with your line coming over it, and your neighbour the other side with their line going nowhere near it.

Second, the UAS seconds are high compared to the SES (Serious Error Seconds), which themselves are as near as dammit equal to the Error Seconds. So when you have noise around, it is baadddd. How long had it been connected? It's also odd that you have a very low level of interleaving (the D: line) but zero RS Errors. I don't understand how that has happened, although the low speed may be part of the cause.

As camieabz asked, are you plugged into the master socket faceplate, or into the test socket inside it? Are there any wires attached to the inside of the faceplate, as in this pic?

Have you ever done a Quiet line test? Best done by connecting a corded phone into the test socket just described - the one on the wall at the back in the pic. No filter, no router. Dial 17070 and take option 2. It should effectively be silent.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 27-Jan-13 17:08:49
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Random guess (with a habit of being fairly right smile )

The 1 Meg may have been the old fixed speed product, and with the rollout of WBC they transferred line and for some odd reason it has a daft banded profile applied.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jp101
(newbie) Sun 27-Jan-13 18:15:38
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks roberto, I have been reading your v. helpful site and I need to try a number of things. Good job I did not contact BT straight-away as I think it would have gone around in circles!

I put in a new phone a while back and I suspected that it might be noisy and causing the problem, but this has been removed now (for the past three weeks).

As you say, the line was never better than 1Mbit/s and this indicates a serious problem. I must buy a new filter just in case this is a problem. I will plug into the test socket, also try the quiet line test.

Jim
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 27-Jan-13 18:16:33
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Re: ADSL speed 0.25Mb, neighbour gets 3.7Mb!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
the UAS seconds are high compared to the SES
These are just:
UAS - Unavailable seconds
Ten consecutive SES's will trigger a UAS event, and will remove the path from use. The path will become usable again after 10 consecutive seconds with no SES.
What we need is the AS - Available seconds to gauge how long it's been up.

wink Are UAS seconds the same as MAC codes?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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