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Standard User bezuk
(member) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:17:25
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<1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[link to this post]
 
Hi all,

A friend is having an awful lot of trouble with their Sky LLU broadband. There doesn't seem to be a lot wrong with the line or the service, so I'm sure the internal wiring is to blame.

I don't have the exact line stats to hand but the sync is around 700k down and 200k up and the downstream attenuation is around 35dB.

Unfortunately, there's no master socket that I can identify, and a lot of sockets. There are no DECT phones attached other than the one in the same socket as the router via a filter. There is a sky box in the property but it is not connected to the phone line. None of the sockets other than the first are in use at all.

Below are photographs of every socket that I was able to access:

Living room, first socket. The router and DECT phone are plugged in here.
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/livingroomsocket1a.jpg
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/livingroomsocket1b.jpg

Living room, second socket. This one looks like a manually installed extension point (mounted on the wall rather than in the wall)
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/livingroomsocket2.jpg

Kitchen, first socket. The entire kitchen is an extension to the property and these sockets have a metal finish.
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/kitchensocket1.jpg

Kitchen, second socket:
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/kitchensocket2.jpg

Master Bedroom socket:
http://mbdev.net/phonesocketpics/masterbedroomsocket...

There is also a socket in a second bedroom that I was not able to access, other than to confirm that it is not a master.

Questions:
1) Which wires do I disconnect to attempt to resolve the problem?
2) Is it even sensible to attempt a fix on such a complicated setup? Is there a professional option? BT will not even discuss this line as it is full Sky LLU, and it does not appear in their checker.


Thanks in advance.
Mark

Be Unlimited 35700 / 2500 on line bonding.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:25:53
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
Full router stats are needed, to see if it looks like it is a Sky LLU speed cap or wiring that is the issue

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:31:24
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Best step is to find the incoming wiring, which I think is the living room and simplify things so that only that socket works using pins 2 and 5

Then wire the other sockets up as needed but living off pin 3 (ring wire)

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User bezuk
(member) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:32:39
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Lucikly I found them in my email history from November when those pics were taken.

ROUTER STATISTICS

System Up Time: 00:04:00
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN MER 620 561 0 792 1921 00:02:40
LAN 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00
WLAN 2372 2258 0 11580 2204 00:02:30
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 762 kbps 249 kbps
Line Attenuation 40.5db 46.0db
Noise Margin 6.7db 6.8db

Attenuation a bit higher than I remembered but still not high enough to justify the low sync, as far as I know.

Be Unlimited 35700 / 2500 on line bonding.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:37:22
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
Line Attenuation 40.5db 46.0db

Upstream is usually half the downstream attenuation, so something wrong. Strip it all back to a single working socket with two wires only and grab stats again

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:40:46
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
COWBOY - a description of whoever installed that mess.

On the Living Room socket the incoming circuit is on Red & White OR Blue & Black! But which two? Somehow you need to find out which is the actual incoming pair.

Then, there are three connections in some IDCs - they are designed for two and a third can cause issues such as HR faults. The wires are inserted incorrectly - from the wrong side on some and not trimmed. It definitely suggests that the original BT install has been tampered with and the extensions should NOT be connected to the IDCs on the master (the Living room socket 1).

Living room socket 2 is also a master - which will cause problems and the wiring is incorrect.

My advice is to remove the connections for ALL extensions from the master (Living Room1) so that only the incoming line is connected and then look at the results again.

However, you should not be tampering with the master - it is BTs responsibility and unless you are really sure whet you are doing then they might need to bite the bullet and pay BT for a new split face plate master to be installed.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:45:43
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bezuk:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation 40.5db 46.0db
Attenuation a bit higher than I remembered
Attenuation also suspicious as usually Down Attenuation ~ 2 x Up.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:52:27
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
Looks like the red and white pair might be the incoming in the living room first socket.

If you remove all the other wires from the connectors, i.e. blue, blue/white, black and white/blue, does the phone still work in that socket and are all the other sockets dead.
Standard User bezuk
(member) Fri 08-Feb-13 14:53:09
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Agreed - I think it's the worst I've ever seen.

My friend would be happy to pay BT to sort it out if they would be willing to discuss the line at all. I understand that it's Sky's responsiblity as the line rental provider to pass such requests on to Openreach, but attempting to discuss the physical line with Sky seems to send them into a state of profound confusion.

Another option is FTTC. I understand that if they switch to a FTTC service, then the engineer will sort the wiring as part of the installation. Postcode check says FTTC is available (30th May when I took the pictures) but naturally the line doesn't show up in BT's checker. Sky's own FTTC checker is a disaster; it requires me to be the bill payer (which I'm not) and after that it wants me to pick my line rental supplier from a list - but Sky is not an option!

So I'm probably going to have to try to fix it as is.

I'll take everything out of Living room socket 1 and then attempt to connect the colour combinations you suggest in 2 and 5. If I get the wrong pair, will any harm be done?

Also, you say blue & black is one possiblity - but there are two different shades of blue both going to pin 2 on that socket. Is it a case of trial and error?

Be Unlimited 35700 / 2500 on line bonding.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 08-Feb-13 15:09:46
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Re: <1 megabit sync at 35dB - wiring help requested


[re: bezuk] [link to this post]
 
Have you got an IDC/Krone tool? You would be well advised to get on to do the reconnections.

The cheapo one there should be OK. Or similar from anywhere local like Maplin or B & Q etc.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.3/15.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 08-Feb-13 15:10:21)

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