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Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Sat 09-Feb-13 08:44:27
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Rural phoneline/broadband problem.


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Hi guys, I did make a post before, but thought it would be tidier to just start again.

We live in a very rural location, between 7.5 and 8km of cable from the exchange. however I think its quite possible that the 4-5km of UG cable is 0.9mm, maybe even some of the overhead, I'm not sure... The phone has been here since the late 50's.

in our immediate area, where the UG cable goes to overhead (coincidentally this is also the end of the UG.) there are 10 properties, of which 2 probably have no phone paid up (only partially occupied.), and the rest bar 1 have broadband. We are second from the end, the next property is a further 3km ish of cable, and as such will not get broadband.

Our line attenuation is round about 69-70db, noise is currently 17db, and sync speed anywhere between 300-600kbps at the moment. However we are experiencing very poor sync (can take hours) and high data errors, that we never used to get, also speed is down from 1280kbps (stable).

Now we have had 5 BT openreach engineers (one a 'broadband boost'), and another booked for a week on monday. Number 3 apparently swapped pairs, and after he left sync still was not perfect, but speed shot up to 1760kbps for 3 days, then dived to 300kbps.

We are also getting the additional symptoms of hearing our 2 immediate neighbors on either side's phone ringing (faintly, no we can't hear conversations) and the ticking of an electric fence which is maybe 100m from where the UG cable goes to overhead.

I'm really just looking for advice on what to do next, I have all the information for the engineers, they just can't/won't do anything! plus as an added annoyance the line tests fully ok on their equipment (line balancing, everything etc within tolerances and on par with what they would expect for such a line length). To be honest I can't see how this is possible considering the ringing from other lines we can hear...

One of our neighbors said he had tons of trouble, until they replaced his stretch of overhead, but how do I get them to do that? I've spoken to the engineers before on other jobs on this line, the trouble is the overhead wire goes through trees and gets constantly bashed from them, breaking up the cable inside.

Any help would be much appreciated, I've tried to include all the relevant information and to be concise...

Thanks, JF.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Feb-13 09:47:21
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Re: Rural phoneline/broadband problem.


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 405mi16:
We are also getting the additional symptoms of hearing our 2 immediate neighbors on either side's phone ringing (faintly, no we can't hear conversations) and the ticking of an electric fence which is maybe 100m from where the UG cable goes to overhead.
Then you have a definite voice fault; nevermind the BB. Do you get those sounds when you call BT Quiet Line Test (17070 Opt 2) with the router disconned? Forget the BB for now and concentrate on that. It is BT's responsibility to fix it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Sat 09-Feb-13 10:06:12
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Re: Rural phoneline/broadband problem.


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that's the only time you can hear them because the dial tone covers up the noises.

And yes, its been reported as a voice fault, as it seems to be the only way TalkTalk will send out a BT engineer instead of a useless (no offence) Cube engineer.

I had 2 BT guys out yesterday, first only came to listen, then referred it to the 'UG guys', the the 'UG guy' came out in the afternoon, took some junctions apart, put them back together, then came into the house with 4 bags of kit, here was me hoping it was some kind of super tester, but no. It was just the predecessor to the current JDSU tester, and just like its modern counterpart it found nothing. I offered to replicate the noise for him to hear, but he wasn't bothered and just left, he then phoned half an hour later saying he had spoken to his boss and that they were closing the fault and I would have to get TalkTalk to send out a Bt Openreach Broadband engineer, I wasnt keen seeing as over the past 3 months and countless phonecalls to TalkTalk Technical Support I have found them to be insanely inconsistent as to what they would do. But I landed lucky, and the guy begrudgingly booked an engineer for a week on Monday.

But the thing is, I just want it so that BT openreach will follow through till its fixed, and I don't have to keep speaking to TalkTalk... any suggestions?

Thanks, JF.


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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Feb-13 10:21:52
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Re: Rural phoneline/broadband problem.


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Only the unwelcome suggestion of never taking your landline away from BT if you want voice faults such as this reported & fixed painlessly. BT Retail are excellent at handling them and it can all be done online.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sat 09-Feb-13 10:47:01
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Re: Rural phoneline/broadband problem.


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
We are also getting the additional symptoms of hearing our 2 immediate neighbours on either side's phone ringing
You may be better ignoring broadband in discussions with Talk Talk and focussing on this. I helped out a radio station that had crosstalk between lines (potentially embarrassing if the office line gets broadcast in a phone-in !) and it was down to corrosion and plant infestation in a neglected junction box.

If the neighbours can hear you in a similar way try to get them to report a voice fault too.

Dialling a single digit gets rid of the dial tone smile

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Sat 09-Feb-13 14:09:05
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BT OPENREACH POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Yes, well I've been using the 17070 opt 2 quiet line test quite a bit, thing is we also have an electric fence noise, but it seems to vary quite a bit from a definite clicking, to a soft pulsing in the background buzz (which it is now...).

My main complaint I suppose is with BT Openreach, its entirely their problem, their exchange, equipment, cables, poles, junction boxes... It has nothing to do with TalkTalk, so why do the engineers keep closing the fault and telling me to re-report it?! Surely once its been taken to an engineer visit, and he cant fix it, it would be escalated within BT??

Seriously though, 5 BT engineers, 2 of which were half deaf, another young and inexperienced with long lines who spent more time on the phone to his boss (who told him that its a long line, they're just like that) than actually doing anything... And I'm still exactly where I was 3 months ago! Or am I being a little unreasonable?

Thanks, JF.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sat 09-Feb-13 15:10:48
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Re: BT OPENREACH POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Talk Talk are Openreach's customer in this case. If they report a voice fault and that fault isn't present when the technician rolls up it is difficult for them to do anything about it.

Similarly if TT report a line fault affecting the broadband and there is no evidence of a fault what do they do ? Openreach are only selling T-T a copper line with an approximate length and a few well publicised electrical parameters, if the line is within those parameters there is in fact no fault.

As for the electric fence, the owner of that is responsible for electromagnetic emissions or nuisance it causes. Are the animals actually in the field ? could the fence be moved a little further away from the phone line or put at an angle to it etc ??

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Sat 09-Feb-13 15:24:53
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Re: BT OPENREACH POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
I fully understand and agree with all of that, but the fact is there is a pretty clear fault (hearing other folks' ringing on our line), but the engineers say that they don't/can't understand or fix it, while the line passes all the box of tricks tests, the fault is still there, and the engineers know it isn't fixed when they leave, so why doesn't BT follow through with a more advanced/experienced engineer to actually fix it? Rather than waiting on me to re-report the exact same fault again and again, hoping that one of these times the engineer can actually fix it.

And as for the the electric fence, well that's relatively straightforward, but we'll worry about that later when they fix the rest. Can anyone give be an explanation of how the pulses from the fence end up in a fully insulated cable?

Thanks, JF.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sat 09-Feb-13 15:30:04
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Re: BT OPENREACH POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
electromagnetic radiation from the fence is picked up by the phone wire, like you can have insulated aerials. This is most likely to happen if you have what is known as a "split pair" which may also give the symptoms you describe as it isn't a twisted pair with its noise rejecting properties . The common mode filter in a iPlate might help a bit.

A split pair is when you use one half of two pairs and someone else uses the other half of two pairs (or similar) and can arise if a cable joint is made / remade incorrectly.

The correct procedure in the faults system is for Talk Talk to reject the fault clearance, having asked you if its ok - they text you and ask you to reply "fixed" don't they ?

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User 405mi16
(newbie) Sat 09-Feb-13 15:43:27
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Re: BT OPENREACH POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
The common mode filter in a iPlate might help a bit.


Can you explain what you mean by "common mode filter"? As it is the 4 wire BT cable (yes, I know only one pair is used and the other is standby for a second line or if the current pair fails for some reason) comes straight through the wall into a single brand new NTE5 master socket, there is no extension wiring AT ALL in the house, there is also a filtered faceplate on this, with the adsl router sitting right beside it, and one DECT cordless phone, and one plain old corded phone.

In reply to a post by yarwell:
The correct procedure in the faults system is for Talk Talk to reject the fault clearance, having asked you if its ok - they text you and ask you to reply "fixed" don't they ?


Yes they do, at the moment I have 13 of them!

The most frustrating thing is the time wasting to be honest, every time there is a minimum wait of a full week when getting a BT appointment...

Thanks, JF.
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