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Standard User Bewsh
(regular) Tue 19-Mar-13 18:58:57
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PPPoA Netgear dramas?


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Hi,

Just have a strange issue , I think I know what it is but I thought il check anyway. I live in Australia, but currently staying with my parents for a few weeks in the UK. Their landline is terrible, I mean 67dB attenuation, struggling to make a 2000kbps connection. The target SNR must be 3dB which I suspect has been lowered so BT can class it as reaching 2mbps avoiding the not spot. It holds pretty well to be fair to it, though you do notice when it drops below 2 and web pages start taking forever to load (by rights it should lose connection).

Anyway, that's just the background. I have found that for a random reason at night the router will stay in sync with the exchange, though the PPPoA connection will drop (not giving me an IP address and therefore no real internet!). I can try force it to re-connect but it doesn't have any of it and just remains lifeless until around 6.30am when it decides to come back up again. I have rebooted, hard reset, re-input log in details in this time with no success.

I would have suspected that the low SNR was making usable connection impossible and therefore the PPPoA not working etc..

However....

My own connection back in Australia is a class above , with a 8dB attenuation connecting at about 22mbps. I think there is some interference, only seem to get a 6dB SNR which *occasionally* drops un-usable (but doesn't disconnect), which is likely due to the poor installation by Telstra.

Oddly enough I have the same PPPoA drop outs, and refusal to come back up (with resets and the works not doing anything).

Both routers used are the newer Netgear models.

Is this likely to be a Netgear fault? neither router gets re-set that often so could it be in response to overtime use? or could there be another issue which I have been blind to?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Cheers
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 19-Mar-13 19:37:31
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: Bewsh] [link to this post]
 
I have had occasions where the PPP negotiation doesn't work, including changing routers, and this on a line with ample SNR margin. Is it set up for "always on connection" to save it idling out ?

The other end of the equation, be it the DSLAM or the RADIUS servers beyond, could equally well be the cause of the problem.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 19-Mar-13 22:42:47
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: Bewsh] [link to this post]
 
Look at the PPP lease/session renewal times in the router GUI.

Probably 12-hour leases, but the router tries to renew it after 6 hours. So it's a rolling 12 hours.

It does that in case the renewal fails, so it gets a second chance. It sounds as though both the first and second chances are failing.

On the face of it that wouldn't explain why rebooting the router doesn't work. However if the background noise is such that there are too many errors on the line for the PPP negotiation that could explain it.

My experience of Netgears is that they are very good at holding sync, even at -1dB noise margin. I suggest next time this happens you check what it is at. A reboot at such a time, on a 67dB line, is likely to fail to sync anyway I would have thought.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 20-Mar-13 08:28:58)


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 19-Mar-13 22:45:43
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: Bewsh] [link to this post]
 
Further to my previous post, and a side issue that could however help their connection in general, have a read of this page. Also make sure non of the nasties on this page apply.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 20-Mar-13 08:22:10
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Look at the DHCP lease/session renewal times in the router GUI.
Probably 12-hour leases, but the router tries to renew it after 6 hours. So it's a rolling 12 hours.

But the issue is on the WAN side ? So DHCP is not relevant.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 20-Mar-13 08:36:00
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Phil - late night posting slip. Later in the post I do say about the PPP renogotiation.

Anyway, I've edited.

Further thought though - vague memories of "stale sessions" at the ISP end?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 20-Mar-13 08:39:55
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: Bewsh] [link to this post]
 
Further to what Phil (yarwell) pointed out and my reply to him, it would be a good idea to have a look at the Netgear event logs around the time it happens.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Bewsh
(regular) Sat 23-Mar-13 08:09:17
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Just to follow this up + some clarification to help anyone else...

I had installed a pre-filtered faceplate previously so the ringwire and extensions were not an issue. The router had nothing to indicate any timeout or renewal going on.

the logs would only say PPP disconnect. PPP allowed to come back up, and would stay at that for a good 40mins at a time before finally connecting.

So far I think this has been solved. I called the ISP (Plusnet) and firstly requested the target SNR to go to 6 to just generally help things. For some reason the tech team thought it would be much better on a target of 9, which effectively halfed the connection speed (2400kbps~ to 1350kbps~) however a usable slower connection is a heap load better than a fast intermittent.

The PPP connection hasn't dropped yet. But then again I didn't give it long enough to test before I went out and bought a new router (Netgear again... but the fancy new D6300) The thing is pretty swish, and the chipset must like the new BT DSLAM because with snr of 9 its at least synching at ~1800kbps which may just about scrape a 1.5mbps profile?

The router has been going for a few days straight without issue.

My guess would be that the router had served its time, having being left on 24/7 for the best part of 3 years, and that it simply needed replacing.

Thanks for the input.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 23-Mar-13 11:37:48
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Re: PPPoA Netgear dramas?


[re: Bewsh] [link to this post]
 
It might be worth asking Plusnet again then, if the new router was installed after the 9dB setting.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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