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Standard User DoYouLikeHam
(newbie) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:29:08
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Attainable Data Rate


[link to this post]
 
Hello-

I have broadband (if you can call it that) service through a company (www.tkscable.com) that leases the line from the dominant communications company in the country (www.telekom.de). TKS (the person at their shop) indicated they 'resell' this direct from Telekom, but Telekom (at least the person at one of their shows) speculated that TKS is actually going through another 3rd party.

My current DSL rates (as shown in my Fritz!Box console) are 1184kbps down and 160kbps down (miserable).

Our village was recently upgraded, (portions were dug up most of the winter & spring) and according to Telekom, they now have two packages available. One package is maximum of 16 Mbps, and the other (only 5 euro more a month) at a maximum of 50 mbps.

Speaking with Telekom (at one of their shops), they indicate they could provide me with the 50 mbps package. However, TKS indicates the maximum they can provide is 6 mbps.

I learned that I can check my Fritz!Box, and it shows the 'Attainable data rate (kBit/s)' of 5448 receive and 1088 send.

Further, TKS indicated that the maximum they can provide is 16mbps based on their contract with Telekom... so even if they wanted to provide 50, they would be limited to 16.

My question, is how reliable is this info in the Fritz!box? How is this value determined? Is it based on a setting that Telekom restricts on TKS, or through the possible 3rd party? Or, is this a reliable maximum limit given the physical infrastructure?

I'm wondering if perhaps that since the construction is just completed (at least, the visible portion in the village), if the line doesn't yet show a maximum beyond the 5448 kbps due to some additional work that still needs to take place. I'd consider switching to Telekom directly (though, it is a painful 4 week delay between termination and re-activation, apparently)... but would be worth it if I were able to get better than the 6mbps.

However, if the Attainable data rate is reliable, and is in fact limited to the 5448 mbps, regardless of provider, switching would be pointless.

Thanks for any insight/advice. Most importantly, I want to understand if the FritzBox value is reliable, and is indeed a 'speed limit' on my line, so to speak. It's hard to find good/reliable technical info/advice from the telecoms, especially since there is a language barrier.

Thanks
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:36:02
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
I am afraid I have no direct knowledge of the German market but it sounds similar in what is happening in the UK.

It would sound like you are currently on an ADSL based package. ADSL is heavily distance dependent back to the exchange and your router is reporting the max speeds you can get on that technology.

The up to 16Mbps is likely ADSL2+. However, again it is distance dependent and may not give you any advantage over ADSL.

The new 50Mbps package is most likely based on fibre to a local cabinet or node. This shortens the distance from you to the connection point and probably is VDSL based which can give much faster speeds.

My guess is that Telekom are providing the new package as they own the network. It sounds like TKS don't currently resell that package and therefore can't give you access to it. If that is the case then you may have to move to a provider that does resell the fibre based package in order to get those speeds,
Standard User DoYouLikeHam
(newbie) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:48:06
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply. Indeed, the 50 mbps package is marked as 'VDSL'... however, when I asked at Telekom, they indicated that the box at my house, and wiring to it are the same, regardless of the package I have.

My village is quite small.. during the construction process, I noticed two 'boxes' (and underground wiring) installed along the main street. One nearly directly in the center of the village is about 550m from our house. The other is 400m beyond that. the total distance from one end of our village to another is only 1.2 km. If there is fiber, even only to the furthest box, we're still within 1km.


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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:48:36
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
there are two technologies involved ADSL and VDSL. ADSL uses frequencies up to 2.2 MHz.

VDSL uses much higher frequencies - up to 8 or maybe 17 MHz

Your "attainable rate" from your ADSL equipment is specific to that.

VDSL would go a lot faster.

The new equipment and digging would have been installation of VDSL equipment in street cabinets closer to your home than the telephone exchange supplying ADSL. So you win in two ways - shorter distance and more frequency bandwidth.

Your miserable upstream speed may be a problem in your property. Do you have a centralised filter, or individual filters on each thing connected to the phone circuit. Is your phone system ISDN or analogue phone (the Fritzbox may say Annex A or Annex B on the DSL standard).

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:50:19
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
the Fritzbox may be capable of both VDSL and ADSL, I'm not sure. They aren't that common here. What model is it ?

The wire to your house would stay the same, but the electronics would be closer to you.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User DoYouLikeHam
(newbie) Tue 30-Jul-13 08:57:24
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
The Fritz1box FON WLAN Model is 7170. In the console, for DSL overview, it shows:
DSL enabled
[10 day(s)15:59:04]
ADSL (ITU G.992.1)
Annex B

I was also wondering if the miserable speed may be a problem on the property.. I was going to check with my neighbor to see if their box reports anything differently.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 30-Jul-13 09:09:18
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
The key to seeing if the ADSL is slow because of your wiring is to get the telephone wiring in your property to its minimum, not sure on the Germany standard in this respect. In short you want just one socket working and usually the one closest to the entry of the property.

The 7170 model does VDSL I believe, so if you upgrade to the newer faster VDSL based service then much higher speeds become possible if available to your property. Very often it is available across a town, but too often only specific parts of the town, which may explain the variation in answers you are getting.

On whether your ADSL is slow or fast, then the calculator at http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc while tuned for the UK market, should give a reasonable indication of if you are slow or fast based on the ADSL statistics.

The stats for the calculator should be on the same page as the attainable figures ie like at http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/stats/routers.html#avm

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 30-Jul-13 09:10:51
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
Annex B is ADSL over ISDN which I think has less upstream bandwidth, but not so much less as you report. What are the up / down speeds from the console.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User DoYouLikeHam
(newbie) Tue 30-Jul-13 09:48:18
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Yarwell.. the console reports:

It reports:
Max DSLAM Data Rate kBit/s Up 1184 down 160
Min DSLAM Data Rate kBit/s Up 1184 down 160
Current DSLAM Data Rate kBit/s Up 1184 down 160
Attainable Data Rate kBit/s Up 5448 down 1088

Why do you ask?

According to wiki, upstream is maximum 1.8 MBps, so quite a bit better than what I currently get, and better than the attainable.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 30-Jul-13 10:15:32
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Re: Attainable Data Rate


[re: DoYouLikeHam] [link to this post]
 
i asked for clarity - people sometimes post speed test results rather than line rates, or make mistakes. The ups and downs for example are confusing me.

Annex B I think has a lower upstream potential, as ISDN uses more frequencies than POTS (analogue voice). https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tdsldmtspekt...

My conclusion is that you should switch to the VDSL service and you will get much better speeds.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics

Edited by yarwell (Tue 30-Jul-13 10:18:51)

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