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Standard User SE09
(newbie) Wed 14-Aug-13 14:55:21
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Need help asap before i move to Plusne BT

[link to this post]
Hi I'm with the post office on ADSL 1, but after receiving a book in the post saying they are moving to faster ADSL 2, with NO mention that they are going LLU on Talktalk hardware and that iím being slammed, i need to move before 2 Sep.

Okay this is the problem Iíve been at this address and on ADSL 1 for about 8 years, the first 2 years with entanet isp and BT phone line at 7 sync rate (canít remember the full rate) and download at 6.5Mbs rock solid.

I had a problem where the sync was still 7 but the download was 0.2, it was fixed by moving my copper pair in the street cab.

later i moved to the post office and when i was up and running with them and with the fix, i was syncing at 8128Mbit (448 down) with a rock solid download at 7.1Mbits for almost 5 years.

Line Stats

Connection Speed 8128 Kbps 448 Kbps Line Attenuation 30.6 dB 15.5 dB Noise Margin 10.9 dB 25.0 dB

DSL Connection Rate 8.13 Mbps (DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps (UP-STREAM) IP Profile 7.15 Mbps.

About 6 months ago, we started to have slowdown, for a few days then back to normal. but 6 weeks ago, the speed dropped right down to between 0.3Mbits - 3.6Mbits, came back to 7.1 for 5 days then dropped again, and is now stuck very low. (syne rate never drops)

the line stats are still the same.

The thing is when i go to a ispís availability checker, it always said your line can do fibre at 48Mbits, or ADSL 1 at 8Mbits, or ADSL 2 at 18Mbits (said this for years)

now they say my line can only do ADSL 2 1Mbit !

We had a engineer out 2 weeks ago, who confirmed it was not our side, and cleaned the wires in the poll junction box that's on our wall. (we have no extensions and itís cats all the way, and the router is arms length from the poll junction box) he confirmed that my router was syncing to the exchange at 8128 and my brass was max for ASDL1.

i did a BT wholesale speed test again and it was still low, he left without looking at the cab or going in to the exchange, saying it might be my isp (itís not as they are giving us full speed top the exchange)

we now have a engineer coming out tomorrow, but what's the point if they donít look at the cab or exchange.

also for most of the time I've had the problem the plusnet exchange status checks has shown 20cn as not working as it should, and about the same time as the speed popped up to full, it went from amber to green on 2cn. itís still on green but is weeks out of date now.

i must get this fixed now as i must move before the 2nd or Sep as i want to stay on BTW.

I've been using computers for 30+ years and setting up peoples Lans and building PCís for years, so i know how to look after my side of the network.

even so itís cost me £100 to prove to my isp that itís not my router or cat6ís, switchís and so on (all new router and cats)

We have loads of pcís with windows and Linux, and have done the new router to socket, and new cat6 to pc only to rule out any home side problem.

What i think...

1) Junction box no cover for years and heavily corroded (bt came out about 2 months ago to fit a line to someone and ignored this because he was on contract)

2) Same old street cab fault

3) BTW have moved us as we are only ADSL1 to make room for ADSL2 or fibre, and are letting ADSL1 die (looks like this with 20CN problems for over 6 months with no fix at all) (That's also what a BT CS sales rep and 1 PO CS lad said too)

4) Faulty hardware at the exchange, but won't do anything as the PO are moving from them in 2 weeks and are letting ADSL1 go.

BTW are saying line only 1meg now, why?

I donít want the pair moving as the copper is good, and we had a max speed

but i need it fixed before i move to a new isp and ADSL2 or fibre, as the new isp will have no record of the line faults or status, and would just say your line is a 1 meg line sorry.

can someone please help me with this

can a mod look into the LCKEN exchange for me. the link i used was

what would get moved if i go ADSL2 or fibre? would the move bypass the cab or exchange fault?

Can the test tool the engineer uses download a file to do a true speed test, or is the speed info just synce rate and so on?

They should have small note book pc's with them

sorry for the book lol, but itís a problem dump

Edited by SE09 (Wed 14-Aug-13 18:58:36)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Aug-13 15:44:05
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
Small point of fact, you are not being slammed. The service is still contracted with the Post Office who have decided to change who their wholesale provider is. Your panic is that you are worried you will be moved to a full LLU service and landed with TalkTalk retail support. The support level will depend on what the PostOffice via their contract with Fujitsu decide is worth the money, and TalkTalk wholesale products are perfectly capable of doing WLR + SMPF (they do this for business customers) again depends on what Post Office wants to pay.

If the sync rate never drops then the issue may just be the capacity of the Post Office service, i.e. congestion. Getting an engineer out when the connection rate and modem statistics are not changing is usually a waste of time.

The ISP is actually in control of the speed from the exchange to the internet, so how many customers they have, how much capacity they buy has a major impact.

Post Office has always been only ADSL1. The only way you will go faster is change provider or stay and let the upgrades they are doing take place.

if your attenuation is still 30dB, then picking any provider offering an up to 16 Mbps (ADSL2+ type service) should see you go faster. If the BT Wholesale checker says FTTC services are available then ordering that would also see you going potentially even faster.

It is far from clear from the actual information presented, rather than your diagnosis that there is a line based problem at all.

In short changing provider to one who puts you on ADSL2+ or FTTC should see speeds improve.

Andrew Ferguson, - formerly known as
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User flippery
(committed) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:09:12
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
Are you sure it is not just a stuck IP Profile.
What does the diagnostic test say after initial test on
I had a similar problem with ISP where sync and upload OK but download capped low.
Change of ISP solved problem

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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:20:38
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by SE09:
iím being slammed
Are you? Who is your landline rental with?

In all that long post you never say who is your landline provider NOW. You did say it was once with BT.

If it is still with BT you shouldn't be slammed. BT will ring you up for your consent if there is any attempt to move your landline. In all probability PO will just move your BB to TT Wholesale Partial LLU, leaving your landline alone.

If your landline is also with PO, then PO can choose to move both services to any wholesaler they like, like TT LLU, and that wouldn't be slamming as your supplier remains PO.

If your router stats stay the same and are good, then there is nowt wrong with your wiring, BT's wiring, cabs, boxes or exchange kit, and it is a waste of time calling an eng out, for which ISP would be entitled to charge. The slowdowns you are experiencing are most likely due to congestion in exchange or PO's network. It could well improve in Sept when you are moved to TT, or, alternatively if you migrate to any other ADSL2+ ISP.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User SE09
(newbie) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:28:41
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
Quote: MrSaffron

KK sorry must have misunderstood the slamming.

The thing is with the sync rate, I've had something similar to this before and it was a connection in the street cab that was the fault.

with the isp congestion, why would they (lots of calls to them) all tell me they are giving me full speed to the exchange, and want to send out engineers at their expanse too.

for a long time, I did think we were being slowed or it was isp congestion, but they say no. (even though the fup says 100GB tops, and my Son alone was using 200GB PM)

Can I ask you about the BT Wholesale checker.
I was told to do 3 to 5 tests a day using the bt wholesale speed test, and have been doing this for weeks now.
could this be the reason the BT Wholesale checker now says my line is only capable of 1meg?

Also thank you for taking your time to help out.
I know how hard it is to remote help someone.

My main concern was and is, I loose my once good link the the cab and exchange (lots are slower than me in this location, even on ADSL2)
and that I lose my number if I move from LLU to plusnet or BT

and I don't want to move with a line fault, if it is one

Edited by SE09 (Wed 14-Aug-13 17:29:48)

Standard User SE09
(newbie) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:37:27
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: flippery] [link to this post]

Download speed achieved during the test was - 3.63 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8.13 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7.15 Mbps

That's about as fast as I get now
the speed was 7.1 so was almost adsl1 max
Standard User SE09
(newbie) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:39:20
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
yep I did, I said PO postoffice many times

I was under the impression that it was slamming, but I made a mistake.

I read on this forum and others that they are taking it all from BTW, full LLU
thought if you read the book, it's says nothing

Edited by SE09 (Wed 14-Aug-13 17:42:47)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:42:02
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
Are you testing wired or wireless to the router, and what OS is on the computer?

My broadband basic info/help site - | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User leexgx
(committed) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:44:21
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
i agree most of what you did seems to be a little waste of time (your sync speed was 8mb, that is the max sync speed of ADSL1 so the issue was with the provider backhaul or exchange congestion)

congestion on the exchange or (this typically happens on None 21CN exchanges or small exchanges)
PO is not paying for more backhaul (PO moving to talktalk should fix that, this is the most likely issue your having)
or you got a very high error rate on your modem (is your modem in interleaved or fast path? is it showing high errors)

seems what you need to do is change ISP or just let them move you over to talktalk or just go with plusnet for phone and broadband (or BB only)

and does not matter who you go with your sync speed will typically be the same who ever you go with (unless they allow you to lower the nose margin so you can get download higher speeds)

you really should ignore the speed estimation of 1mb for ADSL2 as that is near impossible to happen with Attenuation of 30.6 dB (unless you had 10 phones plugged in with no filters plugged in), so ADSL 2 is very likely to be above 12-15mb upload speed would be closer to 900kbps

Edited by leexgx (Wed 14-Aug-13 17:46:00)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 14-Aug-13 17:45:05
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Re: Need help asap before i move to PlusneBT after being sla

[re: SE09] [link to this post]
Why would they say what they did? Probably because the support staff were told to say that and do not know how it really works or have access to tools to diagnose it.

If you have been exceeding the fair use policy then no surprise at all to find out your speeds are varying a lot. 200GB per month is likely to be well above the average for Post Office customers.

On the BT Wholesale speed test, that is just an exercise in making you think they care and will do anything.

There is NO EVIDENCE that you have lost your good link to the cabinet and exchange. Your modem is connecting at the fastest speed is it allowed, if there was a problem that would vary.

As for losing the number, if you migrate the voice side then so long as you tell the new provider you want to retain the number they should be able to port it. Advice is go to a provider where providing broadband is their bread and butter.

As yet you are no on an LLU service for phone or broadband.

Andrew Ferguson, - formerly known as
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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