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Standard User amyw78
(newbie) Fri 20-Sep-13 09:59:43
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Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[link to this post]
 
Good morning.
First post, so naturally that can only mean I am after some advice! Please be gentlesmile

We moved into a new house a few weeks ago. The house is quite rural so weren't expecting too much from the broadband speed.

We were quite surprised when we ran the speed-checker on BT's website and found that they meter our telephone number and line with a range of between 8MB and 18MB with an estimated download speed of 15MB.
The exchange is ADSL2+ enabled.

We don't like BT customer service very much, so joined Xilo/Uno for Broadband. Their own website indicated similar figures presumably because they are using the same information provided by BT.

We are in fact achieving only around 800kbs to 900kbs.

Xilo arranged for BT Openreach to visit us who reckon we are some 6.5kms line-length from the exchange. They also mentioned that there is some old aluminium cabling causing resistance.

We're now being told that because there isn't a fault with the line, BT are charging us for their visit, which was only arranged because of the huge chasm between the speed we are getting and the speed they indicated our line could achieve making us think there was a fault.

Naturally we have disputed this charge to our ISP Xilo for that reason.

I have also taken some advice from Ofcom this morning which was actually rather interesting - The guy I spoke to told me categorically that the speed range of between 8MB and 18MB that BT have metered our line at and are publicly quoting, should be achievable at or around the quoted estimated speed of 15MB because BT aren't in the habit of making such mistakes.

However, he also said that if there is some issue with the quality of the line, BT are under no obligation to change the line out or make alterations.

I'd really appreciate some advice!smile I'm not entirely unrealistic - We are a way from the exchange, but it does appear there are problems with BT's hardware and that the figures they quote on their website are in fact in some way accurate. We're just not achieving them for some other reason. If we could achieve even 2 or 3MBs that would be a result. 800 to 900kbs is just not workable.

Is there anyone we can talk to / anything we can do to get this resolved?

Thank you in advance smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 20-Sep-13 10:28:06
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: amyw78] [link to this post]
 
Xilo would have access to line attenuation data which should show if you are a long line.

What ADSL modem do you have? Grab the connection speed, attenuation and noise margin data from it when

a) Using it in normal location
b) Using it in the master test socket

and then use http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc to get an estimate for how the line is performing.

If the telephone number was NEW to you, then it may have been showing the speeds from its previous location. What speeds do the postcode and full address check show.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 20-Sep-13 10:30:19
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: amyw78] [link to this post]
 
First, please try to use the right units ... it will make understanding your post a lot easier.

b - bit
B - Bytes

download speeds in kbps or Mbps


Now, the first pieces of information needed to help you out are the Line Stats: Attenuation, SNR and Sync Speed for both Up and Down. You should be able to find those in your Modem/Hub.

With that an estimate of straight line distance to the exchange and the distance by road - just to see if the 6.5 kms is realistic.

The run a speedtest on this site and post a link to the results.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

Edited by MHC (Fri 20-Sep-13 10:47:38)


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Standard User mikejp
(learned) Fri 20-Sep-13 11:57:02
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: amyw78] [link to this post]
 
amyw - my experience of the BT Wholesale speed estimator has been terrible. Heaven only knows which algorithms they use to estimate speeds, but they were offering speeds of 'up to 4.5mb' to premises ion my exchange who were only getting a 'poor' dial-up speed and were around 9km line length. Unreal.

An email to the then CEO LIvingston produced a rapid revision of speeds, but still 'up to 3mb' which is physically impossible as afr as I know, and a BT engineer confirmed there was no way the properties could ever receive any 'broadband' at their distance..

There are two possibilities:
1 BT lie
2) BT's calculations on longer lines are wildly inaccurate

Both give me serious concern for the results of the much-vaunted BDUK NGA scheme particularly in rural areas where long line lengths are common.

I reckon 800kb is a reasonable result at your line length. I suspect the reason they wish to 'charge you' is that there is no obligation for BT to maintain your line for anything other than voice/fax and your line does support that. I would hold out very little hope for you or the 'high speed broadband' solution from your County plan too and I suggest you start looking and agitating there.

Sorry to be depressing!
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Sep-13 14:37:55
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: amyw78] [link to this post]
 
Nevermind the online availability checkers, what expected speed did ISP give you during sign-up, as they are required to do by Ofcom?

If your actual speed is significantly below this, then you are free to leave and your ISP should bear any costs in investigating the discrepancy.
BT are charging us for their visit
No, you are not in contract with BT. Your ISP might be trying to pass on BTOR's charges to them, but they shouldn't be.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 20-Sep-13 16:21:14
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: amyw78] [link to this post]
 
the questions are.

did the isp inform you of charges prior to the visit?
how was the estimated speed relayed to you at point of sale?

I certianly would be disputing the fee like yourself although I am not sure at this moment on how I would go about it, I do think its poor for the isp to blindly pass on the charges tho.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - BQM
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Sep-13 16:42:04
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In this case, the data was checked and BT admitted that the line data was wrong. This was relayed to the customer.

We pushed back to double check this because of the large discrepancy and because no fault could be found with the line, was offered a SFI.

We gave the customer the option of a SFI and explained about potential charging and under what situations. The text asks for time/dates for the visit and also to make a note of the engineers name, time of arrival/departure and what is done/said - so that when disputes are required, we generally have lots of information to work on.

What Openreach engineers say to end users and what they report back can often be very different, so having a log of what happened has helped in the past dispute notes that engineers leave.

Within the text, we also explain about disputes and the time frames for them to be raised. The customer in this instance has requested we raise a dispute which we have and until the outcome of this, we do not pass on the charge.

Matt

uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Sep-13 16:45:31
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
line attenuation data which should show if you are a long line..


80db was what was seen from the original line data at the remote (exchange) end.

Aluminium was also found by the engineers that visited, which won't be helping.

Matt

uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 20-Sep-13 17:09:21
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
If that was vaguely in line with distance from exchange, then booking a SFI was only every going to be a long shot and would only have improved things if able to rip out a few km's of wiring, or switch line from Al to Cu

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User panda
(committed) Fri 20-Sep-13 17:50:40
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Re: Only 800kbs on 15MB estimate ADSL2+???


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
In this case, the data was checked and BT admitted that the line data was wrong. This was relayed to the customer.
I wonder if the estimate was based on stale data - where the number used to exist - rather than where it resides now after it was installed at the new location?

Eats shoots and leaves.
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