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Standard User knighton
(regular) Tue 08-Oct-13 15:03:10
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What will be the BDUK solution for............


[link to this post]
 
........those of us who live a long way from the cabinet or exchange? In Staffordshire like most other places the aim is to provide a minimum of 2Mbps to the 5 or 10% who cannot obtain 'superfast' (24Mbps) speeds.

Given the distance to the exchange, what technologies would be considered accepting that copper cannot do it?

DOI: in exactly this situation - currently using Sat Broadband (pricey and as noted elsewhere, slowing progressively)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 08-Oct-13 16:04:23
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: knighton] [link to this post]
 
Distance to exchange is irrelevant, it is distance to the cabinet

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband....
Benefits tend to run out at 2km so if you are further than that, what will happen depends on what they are trying to achieve and their targets.

Some counties are using satellite for the small percentage outside the easier footprint, or solutions like BET or if economics work out then maybe FTTP or a smaller sub cabinet to run FTTC from.

The target is 97% connected to a fibre based service
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5860-staffordshir...
With 2% of these falling into the 2 Mbps to 24 Mbps region.

As for the other 3% it will be what is most cost effective.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Tue 08-Oct-13 16:23:25
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It doesn't make sense to me that they have just stuck a FTTC cabinet near me that will enable my line to receive vdsl with a projected speed of ~60Mbps, yet a couple of miles away, in small hamlets and villages, they are struggling to get 2Mbps with no plans for fibre.

I currently sync at ~13000Kbps on a ADSL2+ 37dB attenuation which is more than adequate for my my needs yet those a few miles away only get 2Mbps or less.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 08-Oct-13 16:23:52)


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Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 08-Oct-13 16:31:30
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
But the fact you currently get 13Mb/s is probably more to do with the local area and the fact it is most likely easier and cheaper to upgrade. Therefore the ROI on upgrading yours could be significantly better than those that currently have 2Mb/s due to the cables/network design. It is not done on who will benefit most but on where the best potential payback is.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 08-Oct-13 16:36:20
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Down to the cost to provide the service, deliver improvements for the majority, or deliver for the minority or put another way

Upgrade 4 cabinets in an area for £120,000 to service potentially 2,000 properties or four cabinets in a more rural area where there may only be 500 properties served and a poorer speed profile due to sparse nature of the properties.

We all know the solution, for quick and fast fix, fixed wireless and for longer term FTTP but not sure anyone in control of the public purse wants to spend the money for the FTTP element. Hence the half way house, that at least gets the aggregation nodes out into the wild, so that if enough order fibre on demand the economics to roll-out commercial FTTP might change in 5 to 10 years. Emphasis on might of course.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User knighton
(regular) Tue 08-Oct-13 16:42:09
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Distance to exchange is irrelevant, it is distance to the cabinet

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband....
Benefits tend to run out at 2km so if you are further than that, what will happen depends on what they are trying to achieve and their targets.

Some counties are using satellite for the small percentage outside the easier footprint, or solutions like BET or if economics work out then maybe FTTP or a smaller sub cabinet to run FTTC from.

The target is 97% connected to a fibre based service
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5860-staffordshir...
With 2% of these falling into the 2 Mbps to 24 Mbps region.

As for the other 3% it will be what is most cost effective.


I suppose what I was asking is as I am probably in the 2% bit and therefore likely to get fibre of some type, how exactly will it be done?

I am 7km from the single cabinet which is next to the exchange in Field. Where I live is by no means remote (comapred to some areas of the Peak District covered by Staffordshire) being on a mainroad with about 15 houses and farms in the vicinity.

If it is Fibre, what do they do? Do they string Fibre along the Poles and have small pole suspended 'cabinets' along the way?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 08-Oct-13 17:14:57
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: knighton] [link to this post]
 
If you have overhead phone wiring, the visible bits are in this blog item http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/2012/11/spotters-guid...

Would tend to need 30-40 properties within a 200-500m radius of a central location to work I suspect.

Most likely something like BET
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4640-could-bet-pr...
or could be a 4G wireless solution.

In short I would be expecting satellite vouchers and take anything else as a bonus.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 08-Oct-13 17:23:41
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: knighton] [link to this post]
 
There's no magic solution, unfortunately.


The 'gold standard' is Fibre To The Premises, which typically follows existing buried or overhead cable routes. The problem is the cost involved in FTTP, which is why most of the BT Openreach roll-out is the much cheaper Fibre To The Cabinet.

In some cases, network rearrangement allows deployment of a new cabinet with a Fibre To The Cabinet twin at a cost-effective price. Sadly, the necessary network rearrangement might not be able to bring together enough lines of a viable length to make this option worthwhile.

Fibre to the Distribution Point is being worked on by various organisations, but is not yet a deployable product. This is a halfway house between FTTC and FTTP - it takes fibre deep into the network, with the remaining short pairs of wires used instead of the cost of running fibre into each home. How useful this will be remains to be seen - the cost of the unit at the distribution point and the difficulty of providing power (even if this is backfed down the consumers' lines) might mean this is no more cost-effective that 'full' FTTP. Time will tell.


As MrSaffron says, any fibre deployment gets fibre deeper into the network, which provides a basis for further roll-out. FTTP On Demand might eventually turn into a good way for the subscriber and BT Openreach to share the costs rolling out FTTP in areas where there is already a fibre network.

The costs involved in the current FTTPoD product, which has only been rolled out in a limited number of areas, are not very attractive. The minimum installation cost to the ISP is £700 plus VAT, with further distance-related costs added. Anyone at the sort of distance from the aggregation node (and likely, therefore, the FTTC cabinet) where FTTPoD is likely to be of significant benefit is more likely to be paying rather more. At 1500-1999m from the aggregation node, the total installation cost is £4000 plus VAT - for anyone further away than that, it's 'price on application'.

Once FTTPoD is installed, the ISP commits to a 36 month subscription to the 330/30 FTTP product at full price - currently £38/month plus VAT. By the time the ISP has added their costs, even a throttled down service based on FTTPoD is likely to cost around £70/month.


The commercial solutions for those who cannot receive a cost-effective fibre service are likely to involve fixed wireless and, if fixed wireless is not feasible, satellite.

In areas of particular difficulty, self-help is always an option: B4RN are good ambassadors for JFDI FTTP (Just Farmers Doing It). The B4RN approach has lots to commend it, but would be difficult to implement without a lot of skills and effort being brought to the project by dedicated volunteers.


Unfortunately, you cannot defy physics or economic reality. There are always going to be some places that are difficult to serve in a cost-effective manner.

Standard User Michael_Chare
(committed) Tue 08-Oct-13 21:34:21
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
There's no magic solution, unfortunately.

The prices you quote are for an individual connection, which inevitably would be expensive.

If FTTP is rolled out to an area the costs are much lower as demonstrated by the Gigaclear and Jersey projects.

I would like to see BT+BDUK+County Councils take a more active roll in getting enough people in selected areas to commit to an FTTP solution for the projects economic.

Michael Chare
Standard User knighton
(regular) Wed 09-Oct-13 10:25:15
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Re: What will be the BDUK solution for............


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
In reply to a post by David_W:
There's no magic solution, unfortunately.

The prices you quote are for an individual connection, which inevitably would be expensive.

If FTTP is rolled out to an area the costs are much lower as demonstrated by the Gigaclear and Jersey projects.

I would like to see BT+BDUK+County Councils take a more active roll in getting enough people in selected areas to commit to an FTTP solution for the projects economic.


So would I, BUT if the area was already economically unviable in the first place, its likely to be because of distance or the thinly spread population anyway. What would happen if say only 50% of the local households committed?

One of the potential benefits I see from the (generally shambolic) BDUK project would be a degree of capacity building for the future to protect the very existence of rural communities. As BB availability is having an effect on house prices already, what chance to small villages have of surviving if BB access is poor/non-existent?

Surely no-one is suggesting that everyone moves to live in a connurbation?
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