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Standard User daccordimark
(newbie) Fri 07-Mar-14 19:46:36
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Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[link to this post]
 
Hi,
For years we've had ADSL running at 1.6Mbps and given up on ever getting any faster over ADSL. Recently we got mailed by BT about Infinity now being available so I got in touch with our ISP (Utility Warehouse) and arranged to switch to their Ultra Broadband fibre service.
The engineer turned up today and the switch over failed because the Openreach modem couldn't sync, so we are back on ADSL.
After the engineer left I went up into the loft to see if the wiring from the point of entry to the master socket was easily accessible in case there was damage there or anything. After removing some loft insulation I found the cable and an 80A RF2 filter. Never seen one before but the Internet revealed that you shouldn't have one of these on an ADSL line. As it's on the BT side of the master socket I left well alone but could this be responsible for my slow ADSL performance?

The whole reason for moving to fibre was that I couldn't see any other way of getting a faster Internet connection but now I've found the RF2 I'm thinking that maybe if that was changed to an RF3 we could stay on ADSL and get a usable speed without the extra expense of a fibre service.

Also, would the RF2 stop the Openreach fibre modem syncing? My ISP are claiming it wouldn't and that the engineer found an exchange fault after he left my house. They say he's rectified that fault but surely he would have come back and finished the job?

I want to get the RF2 changed and cancel the fibre service assuming we get a decent speed increase. I'd be happy with 5Mbps to be honest - just enough to be able to use iPlayer etc. without buffering which is a bit hit and miss at the moment.

What do you wise chaps think?

Mark.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 07-Mar-14 19:50:59
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: daccordimark] [link to this post]
 
What are the current ADSL stats from the router?

An RF2 will impact on the ADSL and VDSL2 speeds, an RF3 should be fitted for DSL services. Or if the RF2 was put in years ago it is possible the noise interfering with the voice service has now gone and no noise filter is needed.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User daccordimark
(newbie) Fri 07-Mar-14 20:20:46
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi MrSaffron,
Stats as requested:

Uptime: 0 days, 3:14:18
Modulation: G.992.3 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 793 /3,048
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 28.5 / 54.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 16 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 36 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 13 / 40,714
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 28
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 20

Thanks,
Mark.


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Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 07-Mar-14 21:12:36
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: daccordimark] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by daccordimark:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 793 /3,048
...
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 28.5 / 54.0
Those figures aren't that far out of whack. How far from your exchange are you? I suppose the filter could increase attenuation. If you're about 4km from your exchange then your're about at the maximum for ADSL.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Fri 07-Mar-14 21:50:20)

Standard User partial
(committed) Fri 07-Mar-14 21:38:04
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: daccordimark] [link to this post]
 
A photo of the inside of the BT80 will help people diagnose if it is a BT80 or BT80RF.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Mar-14 22:40:27
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: daccordimark] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by daccordimark:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 793 /3,048
On that connection speed you should be getting between 2.2 and 2.5Mbps real throughput speed, not the 1.6Mbps you give in your OP. Do you connect wired or wirelessly to your router?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Ribble
(experienced) Fri 07-Mar-14 23:03:49
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
If it really is an RF2 then it will have the effect of increasing the attenuation significantly and should either be replaced or removed from the line entirely
Standard User daccordimark
(newbie) Sat 08-Mar-14 09:35:13
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
I'm going by the markings on the back and the fact it matches this one:

http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/BT80ARF2.html with two visible inductors rather than the single visible one on the RF3.

When I spoke to UW technical support yesterday they, in their words, "forced some more speed down the line" so I now get 2.6Mbps on the thinkbroadband speed test. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

The stats I posted were after they had done that. We've had those kind of speeds before but it's never lasted.

I'm slightly confused now because it seems as if an RF2 doesn't always mess up the ADSL speed from what some of you had said and that we are now running at the maximum we could expect. Also, does anyone know if it would definitely stop the fibre from working?

Thanks again,
Mark.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 08-Mar-14 09:41:47
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: daccordimark] [link to this post]
 
As you can see it's stopping ADSL2+ from working, so chances are, yes.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 08-Mar-14 09:48:25
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Re: Failed fibre installation - 80A RF2 filter found


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
A reasonable provider should when told an RF2 is connected to a line know that it should be swapped over to an RF3

You need to get onto the broadband provider to get this swapped out. Since your line is possibly long, thus only using the lower frequencies the RF2 effect may be less on ADSL2+, but the effect on VDSL which wants to use a lot more frequencies could be a lot larger.

If after a week of trying you get nowhere, then email me andrew@thinkbroadband.com with a link to this thread and the line details and I'll see if something can be done by going direct to Openreach

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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