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Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 13-Apr-14 17:56:20
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ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[link to this post]
 
I've been very happy with my ADSLNation faceplate for years - but FTTC is coming my way thanks to BDUK.

I've read a number of posts on new faceplates/filters for vDSL and have to admit I'm still a bit confused.

Here's my setup - Master Socket (NTE5) is unfortunately in the loft. I installed an ADSLNation faceplate filter and have a long but quality RJ11 running to my study on the ground floor. I've tested a lot and there is no difference in SNR/errors/Attenuation/etc. using the TEST socket in the NTE5 or from my study via the RJ11 extension - so I'm happy my wiring for ADSL is as good as I can get.

When I move to FTTC I'm not sure what I have to change?
Will I be able to keep my faceplate? I've found TBB posts that say I can. I've checked the ADSLNation website and can't see the answer.

Are ADSL filters the same as vDSL ones? I understand the frequencies are different so perhaps not but I'm not sure...
I have no power in the loft so would prefer to keep the new modem/router in the study.

Thanks for any advice smile
Let me know if you need more details.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 13-Apr-14 18:08:22
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Yes you can keep the ADSL nation faceplate. Filtering is basically the same, but get it wrong and VDSL slows down a lot more than a poorly filtered ADSL2+ signal

Only issue I could see is if the ADSL faceplate is old and loft gets very hot and affects life span of components. Worst case just replace with a VDSL faceplate

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 13-Apr-14 18:20:02
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that.

Yes loft gets hot which is why I don't want to put any powered kit there.

Will I be able to just plug my RJ11 into a vDSL modem and go from there?
(I did run a CAT5 cable as well but intend to use that for something else)

Perhaps you could create (or point me to) an idiots guide?
I sort of know how ADSL works and can't find clear guidance for people to moving FTTC.


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 13-Apr-14 18:23:17
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
All broadband filters are designed only to let phone frequencies through in both directions onto the phone side. The broadband side is straight through - not filtered. So as Andrew says, it should be fine.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 13-Apr-14 18:24:50
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
A VDSL2 modem, yes. A VDSL2 router, (i.e. integral modem), you need to be careful unless it comes from your ISP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 13-Apr-14 18:25:42)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 13-Apr-14 19:02:55
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Idiots guide you should be fine.

If worried over VDSL modem, then info on chosen ISP (most supply at least one) and bigger names do self-install i..e just post modem (which is usually with the router built in).

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User stuartsharp
(newbie) Sun 13-Apr-14 19:05:28
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It depends on your provider. You can keep your existing plate if you self-install, but if it's to be done by an openreach engineer, they should insist on fitting one of their faceplates.

I'm presuming your socket is in the loft because you have an overhead line, therefore it's the nearest place to where the line enters the house? If that's so then it's best to keep the socket there and have a separate modem in the loft, with a long ethernet cable linking it to your desired router position. A combined modem/router wouldn't be best for you because you want the modem as close as possible to where the line comes in and the router in the best place for connecting other devices - two different places, in your case.

I wouldn't advise keeping your current setup with the long modem lead, because that's effectively making your VDSL line longer and possibly picking up noise from electrical wiring or equipment along the way - both of those things can be detrimental to the performance, as I know from experience: I recently improved both the speed and latency of my FTTC connection by simply moving the master socket 10m closer to where the line comes in. The reduction in length was negligible but the speed gains came from eliminating noise, thus allowing the DLM to switch my connection from interleaved to fastpath.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 13-Apr-14 23:42:13
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
An ADSL filter will work on VDSL, whether it provides optimum performance is a different question.

The filter is designed to present a very low impedance to the voice frequencies thus allowing them to pass through to the handset. It also provides a high impedance to the ADSL frequencies stopping them reaching the handset and ensuring minimal attenuation or phase changing of those signals.

The ADSL filters were not designed to operate at the higher VDSL frequencies and could offer a low complex impedance at those frequencies which would have the effect of increasing the attenuation or modifying the signal quality - the result being that speeds are lower than they should be.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 09:40:56
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Interesting that TBB regulars have slightly contradicted each other on the filtering query. It would be good to know one way or another if ADSL and VDSL filters are the same or not?


EDIT:
I see Clarity say there is no difference: https://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=1...

I've PM'd the ADSLNation chaps to see what they say...

Edited by b4dger (Mon 14-Apr-14 09:47:16)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 14-Apr-14 10:05:10
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Among the poor quality filters that used to be common on the high street then component values were of the lower specification.

Filters that met or exceeded the specification should be fine.

There are an awful lot of caveats and maybe that can be applied, but if I had self install and had an ADSLNation faceplate I'd be happy using it.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 10:07:50
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - Just have to wait for #BDUK to finish their work now smile

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 14-Apr-14 10:17:44
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
The Clarity page points to the BT SIN that defines ADSL not VDSL/FTTC. The BT SIN for FTTC defines a "Service Specific Face Plate".

If you want some reading, go through ETSI spec 101952-1 and specifically the tables A3, A4, A5 & A6 You will see the requirements are different - for example ADSL specific filters only need to operate within specifications up to 5MHz so above that it can do almost anything.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 10:24:42
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Just trying to keep things simple...

Clarity are saying:
"Note that for installation and filtering purposes, ADSL and VDSL are all exactly the same thing, and all hardware except your router works and is fitted precisely the same way."

As they are selling the kit you would hope they know what they are talking about?

Edited by b4dger (Mon 14-Apr-14 10:25:40)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 14-Apr-14 10:41:08
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
Just trying to keep things simple...

Clarity are saying:
"Note that for installation and filtering purposes, ADSL and VDSL are all exactly the same thing, and all hardware except your router works and is fitted precisely the same way."

As they are selling the kit you would hope they know what they are talking about?


HOPE!

Start with this: http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts%5C101900_101999%...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User tehidyman
(regular) Mon 14-Apr-14 12:59:20
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
I have an ADSL filtered faceplate on my BT master. The engineer fitting my FTTC stated that he did not need to fit an interstitial plate and he left my faceplate untouched, including my Cat5e cable connection running to the ADSL filtered extension. My existing filtered extension he used, plugging the BT modem in using my existing cable. He connected up the BT router did a few quick checks and a speed test gave 37.62Mb/s down and 8.99Mb/s up. I was on a BT 40/10 package. That was nearly 12 months ago and I have had no problems and regular checks indicate that the original speeds have been maintained.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 13:15:49
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: tehidyman] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that - very useful.

I had started to think that FTTC/VDSL would be different to my current setup - but I'm starting to appreciate that things basically follow the same rules as ADSL regarding internal wiring etc.

Standard User JGO
(newbie) Mon 14-Apr-14 13:16:49
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Are you confusing "microfilters" (or their equivalent in the faceplate) , which are the same for ADSL & VDSL, with anti-interference filters like say the RF3 which do have to take the working bandwidth in Hz of adsl/VDSL etc into account.
(see another thread where a RF2, designed for 'phones only, clobbered ads l.

Edited by JGO (Mon 14-Apr-14 13:18:37)

Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 13:20:09
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: JGO] [link to this post]
 
No, I'm only talking about a normal ADSLNation ADSL faceplate etc. not RF2/3.

Just trying to be prepared if I have to make any changes to my current 'optimised' ADSL setup for when FTTC arrives.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 14-Apr-14 14:14:50
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
At Day 1 your setup will work. If you then decide to check out if it could be significantly better, get a temporary extension power lead up there and try the modem directly into the test socket, as you would for ADSLx. After that it's up to you smile. You could ask the engineer to leave you the VDSL2 interstitial faceplate, as you've paid for it smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-Apr-14 14:42:54
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As you say, as per testing for ADSL I'll make a comparison using the TEST socket directly to make sure I'm not losing anything.

I'll certainly ask for a new faceplate, assuming it's an engineer install and it's not me doing the work.

I'm planning to stick with Freeola as my ISP so (unless things change) it will be an Entanet FTTC package. Shame their pricing isn't closer to BT's though frown

Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 13:55:35
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Just to update this thread...

I got my FTTC upgrade yesterday.
The Kelly engineer was happy to fit the latest OR faceplate, so I've got my ADSLNation one as a spare now.

I'm over 600m from the cabinet on overhead lines.
I'm getting around 30Mbps DL (about right - i was hoping for 35) with the OR ECI modem sitting in the loft plugged into the Master Socket with CAT5 to my study and around 20Mbps if I use my old RJ11 all the way to the study.

So for me my internal RJ11 from loft to ground floor seems to make quite a difference with FTTC. This had been thoroughly tested over the last 10 years with ADSL which ran identically whether in the test socket or over the long RJ11.

A bit of a pain for me as I've now got to sort out how to leave things, either putting permanent power in the loft or dropping the router into a bedroom under the Master Socket. I don't really want to leave it in the loft as it gets so hot up there in the summer - at least I've got until next year to sort something out wink

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 14:51:09
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Just to clarify: is your speed reduced by ~10Mbps by using RJ11 from the master socket/OR faceplate in the loft to the modem in the study, yet you get full speed with both the modem and the router in the loft then ethernet RJ45 to the computer in the study?
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 15:39:05
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Sorry - it doesn't read too well blush

The FTTC modem is in the loft plugged into the new NTE5 faceplate.
I've still got my separate router (TP-Link) in the study linked by CAT5.
This gives me around 30Mbps.


If I use the existing 'plumbed in' high quality twisted pair RJ11 running all the way to my study (keeping modem and router together in the study) then it slows up by around 10Mbps.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 16:02:25
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the clarification smile

Obviously Kelly's were not concerned about potential over-heating issues with the modem located in the loft or did you mention that you would try locating the modem in the study linked to the master over rj11 (a "data extension" made up of "high quality twisted pair")?
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 16:52:18
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
He wasn't really bothered about anything to tell the truth!
He just left me with the modem in the study getting 20Mb DL, saying I would have to report a fault if I believed I should be getting more.

I wish it would cool down a bit it's turned into a scorcher this afternoon - I thought I would be ok 'till next year.

I've just ordered a 5m RJ11 (twisted pair etc.) so that I can move it into a bedroom below the NTE5 so it's cooler and I can keep an eye on it.

Edited by b4dger (Fri 12-Sep-14 16:53:49)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Sep-14 19:43:48
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Re: ADSLNation faceplate - going FTTC


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
I've just ordered a 5m RJ11 (twisted pair etc.) so that I can move it into a bedroom below the NTE5 so it's cooler and I can keep an eye on it.


Sounds like a good plan smile

Do you have any filtered voice extensions from the master socket in the loft? If not you could also consider using your current twisted pair cable as an unfiltered extension to the study where you could fit a xDSL and filtered phone faceplate on a socket box, that would mean not using the OR faceplate fitted to the NTE5 but wiring to the back of a blanked unfiltered faceplate on the NTE5 instead. However keeping the modem as close as possible to the NTE5 is probably best, then CAT5 to the router in the study - which I think you have planned to do - but perhaps that would unfortunately render your current “plumbed in” twisted pair redundant…
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