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Standard User 405mi16
(learned) Mon 15-Sep-14 14:41:20
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FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[link to this post]
 
Hi Guys, still battling with BT over our internet issues...

Was wondering if anybody could help me make sense of my stats?

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 03:46:26
Downstream: 1.031 Mbps
Upstream: 448 Kbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.3 dB / 11.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 73.5 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 16.3 dBm / 12.4 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 37616106 / 12139
CRC Events (Down/Up): 312583 / 6071
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 878806 / 5326
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 16136 / 5189

Now I know we have a long line (7.5-8km), but by my maths when the internet is in full use we are accumulating 2,723 FEC events, 25 CRC events, 50 HEC events, and 1 error second, every second! just seems rather a lot to me.

BTW speedtest comes back at 0.5Mbps with a 0.75 IP profile. Which would be ok-ish, but, I suspect due to our error rates, real world web browsing and download performance is inconsistent and dial-up slow! That was the second test, first one came back as 0.02Mbps!

Basically our largest complaint is that we used to have a rock solid 1Mbps connection for 7 years, but the past 2/3 years have been patchy and below par. We have finally decided to raise it up the BT's executive level complaints department, but we are still getting the same treatment ("your line tests ok", "you have a long line, that's as good as you're going to get", etc...)

Sorry about the jumble, but help would be much appreciated.

Thanks, JF.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-Sep-14 15:32:05
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Errored seconds definitely not looking good. I will leave others to comment fully on the stats but wanted to mention one word of warning.

As you have a very long line there is the possibility that if you push the issue that BT Openreach will declare your line as unserviceable and will refuse to provide you any broadband at all. This may not happen but be prepared for the possibility that you could go from having something to having nothing (Openreach would not take account of past performance if the costs to rectify are too high).

You may actually get a better connection if they limited it to a fixed 512Kbps rather than attempting to run it at these speeds. A higher SNR might also help things (4.8dB is not much of a margin for a long line - I've seen shorter lines running at 12dB margin just to keep stable).
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-Sep-14 15:46:10
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Router Line Stats - Errors

Your ES are far too high. Your NM has drifted low, indicating noise on line. It is usually 6dB or probably more on such a long line. What was it immediately after re-syncing? That's what matters.

Have you tried running from the hidden test socket?

You are running on an extremely long line and could be said to be lucky to get any BB at all.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC


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Standard User 405mi16
(learned) Mon 15-Sep-14 16:38:20
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Okey doke, fresh line stats for you here

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:01:21
Downstream: 1.031 Mbps
Upstream: 448 Kbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 7.1 dB / 12.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 73.5 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 16.2 dBm / 12.4 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 120 / 24
CRC Events (Down/Up): 2 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 5 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2 / 0

We have had several brand new master sockets (the engineers keep breaking them when they take them off!) and a proper BT Openreach filter faceplate. There is no internal house wiring. Only one BT homehub, and one cordless phone plugged into the master socket.

So I have just measured our line (thanks google maps!) and it is about 5.8km of main underground cable, then 1.9km of overhead cable from the exchange. We are second to last on this line (the last is an extra 2.2km of cable up the road!) and there are about 25-28 total customers on the entire run served by the underground cable.

Now, just as a side point, when you dial 17070-2 for the quiet line test, and get an assistant to dial any of the 25-28 properties on the run, you can hear the ringing pulse of their phone through the quiet line. It used to be louder than it is now (after several small repairs), but it is still there. Out of the roughly 20-30 engineers (I wish I was kidding) that have been out 1 suggested that it was an exchange equipment fault and referred it back to BT Operate (no further action), and another couple believe it is an underground fault, but cant do anything about it (overhead guys) and BT probably won't sort it (traffic lights = £££'s)

Sorry its all jumbled! I'd appreciate it if anyone can make sense of it, or knows the super secret word that magically makes them fix it... or the masons handshake.

Thanks, JF.

EDIT - Also meant to say it disconnects and eventually reconnects at a significantly lower speed when there's heavy rain. Yes, I've told everyone.

Edited by 405mi16 (Mon 15-Sep-14 16:41:08)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 15-Sep-14 17:18:42
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you have a line fault. Your phone provider needs to get Openreach to fix it.

Alternatively, it's very likely the same fault is causing your broadband problems, so your ISP should get Openreach to fix it.


______________________________________________________________________________________False_Authority_Syndrome__________________

Edited by BatBoy (Mon 15-Sep-14 17:19:55)

Standard User 405mi16
(learned) Mon 15-Sep-14 17:37:48
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Ahah! But BT really is dragging their feet! over two years, and we swapped from TalkTalk to BT over a year ago with the promise of getting better service.

Every time an engineer comes out they plug in their tester, the line tests ok except for a failure on discapacitance, which they blame on the length of the line then they go on to the next job.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 15-Sep-14 17:51:55
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
Here's a way to get it fixed
Give us a month and we'll sort your problem broadband line or your money back.

If you are migrating your service to us, even though you know you have a problem with your broadband line, we'll take on the fault. We'll tackle the problem and get it fixed within one month. If we don't then you can migrate away and owe us nothing for your migration to us and your service charges for that month.



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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 20:34:18
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Here's a way to get it fixed
Give us a month and we'll sort your problem broadband line or your money back.

If you are migrating your service to us, even though you know you have a problem with your broadband line, we'll take on the fault. We'll tackle the problem and get it fixed within one month. If we don't then you can migrate away and owe us nothing for your migration to us and your service charges for that month.


If they do fix it then OP would have a minimum term of 6 months at £25 per month plus a £1 migration fee and a free router (Home 1) - definitely sounds like a good plan smile
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 21:34:43
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: 405mi16] [link to this post]
 
they plug in their tester, the line tests ok except for a failure on discapacitance, which they blame on the length of the line

That'd be right. On very long lines the end to end PQ (pair quality) test will show a fail on the dis capacitance. Despite the overall 'red cross' the figure should still be between 98 to 100%

The figure that should be noted next time would be the AC balance. 55db and above is a pass, but for DSL 60db and above, better still above 65db would be preferable. AC balance is a measurement of the pair to repel external signals.

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Sep-14 14:22:04
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Re: FEC, CRC, HEC, And error seconds... what are they?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
http://aa.nu/broadband-trial.html

I use that before on Plusnet as it much better. This isp know best to fix your line no problem as they work closer with BT. I was surprise all other isp's won't do it even Plusnet.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 16-Sep-14 14:23:31)

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