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Standard User VillageIT
(newbie) Thu 17-Sep-15 21:50:01
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Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


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I have just found out we are not in the second rollout phase of super fast broadband. Extremely galling when the villages less than 2 miles either side will get FTTC. Anyway the next stage are the alternatives such as point to multi point wireless or satellite plus a few others. It occurred to me to look at not so obvious alternatives for increasing existing poor speeds. Are there any telecom specialists or engineers on this forum that can clarify the following.
Generally ADSL co-exists on the same circuit as voice traffic. Are there any overheads or restrictions place on a circuit in order to carry both signals? I only ask because if a provider could supply a gsm mast in the village and encourage everyone to give up their telephones for a mobile phone, could the ADSL only lines provide better performance if not carrying voice traffic?
John
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 17-Sep-15 21:57:09
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
Nothing to be gained, unless someone comes up with a new type of DSL that utilises the extra 25 Khz or so that the ADSL does not use for voice.

In short ADSL already dominates the copper pairs it is carried over.

There are systems like BET that can bond two pairs to boost very long lines form 1 Mbps to 2 Mbps, but at a cost of a few hundred per line not very economical

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User VillageIT
(newbie) Fri 18-Sep-15 08:39:50
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the clarification MrSaffron. I suppose I suspected that was the case. I was perhaps hoping that removing voice might remove some of the "noise" on the line and allow higher sync speeds.
John


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 18-Sep-15 09:09:34
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
On ADSL the lowest frequencies are already allocated to upstream rather than downstream, so would require a rearrangement of that too, in short far too complex to be of benefit when other solutions are available.

Remember the technical side for slow broadband has been fixed, it is just the relative costs and benefits for those building the networks that mean you don't always get the best technology available.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Fri 18-Sep-15 10:16:20
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Morning Andrew

Noting and agreeing with your comments has raised the question as to whether anyone has noticed any interference from the simultaneous use of the line, whether E or D side, with ADSL or VDSL, where the line has conventionally been considered to be "clean" etc?
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Fri 18-Sep-15 17:03:39
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
If your village is big enough and rich enough, you could offer to help the council and BT fund a cab.

This would cost about £25k so needs 100+ premises prepared to pay £250 each. Less than 100 prem and it doesn't really cost in.

Other alternatives are a radio based solution try asking Kjoma for an idea of costs
Standard User Kaoshan
(committed) Sat 19-Sep-15 06:13:03
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Before moving back to urbanisation I lived in (a not very remote) Scottish island off the west coast. Copper was not an option at many thousands per line.

I used satellite, expensive but fast downloads.
Standard User VillageIT
(newbie) Mon 21-Sep-15 17:34:45
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
If your village is big enough and rich enough, you could offer to help the council and BT fund a cab.

This would cost about £25k so needs 100+ premises prepared to pay £250 each. Less than 100 prem and it doesn't really cost in.

Other alternatives are a radio based solution try asking Kjoma for an idea of costs
We have about 500 houses but many are social housing so can't expect them to stump up £250 or even £100. As for £25k is that done by Openreach? It was a few years ago but the last time we enquired BT wanted £100,000!!
Our local MP has called a conference about Filling the Gap and involving County Council and BDUK. There are also two exhibitors Gigaclear and Avonline Satellite Broadband? I and another villager are attending on behalf of Parish Council to see what grants if any are available for alternative schemes. I believe BDUK are giving vouchers to individuals to help cover installation costs.
If nothing else Satellite is better than nothing but the download limits are paltry compared with ADSL. I have also had contact from a company called County Broadband who do point to point and point to multipoint wireless at reasonable monthly charges. They obviously want more than a single end user and want an introduction to the Parish Council perhaps to start a local campaign and sign up prospective users?
I have heard a lot about latency with wireless but is it an issue unless you are gaming on line or video conferencing? I assume downloads and streaming video etc aren't so noticeable?
John
Standard User Michael_Chare
(experienced) Mon 21-Sep-15 20:55:28
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
Could you get enough people to sign up to Gigaclear? The economics are not to bad if you already pay for and ADSL service.

Michael Chare
Standard User gah789
(regular) Tue 22-Sep-15 09:20:49
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Re: Limitations of voice traffic on an adsl telephone line


[re: VillageIT] [link to this post]
 
The latency on fixed wireless systems should be little different from ADSL - it depends on the system design but not the technology. The high latency is for satellite wireless systems because the signal has to travel so much further. As with all shared bandwidth systems, the performance of downloads & streaming over fixed wireless depends on the level of usage of the system. There will be unavoidable slowdowns during periods of peak use but competent operators will meet their stated figures during uncongested periods.

Even for a local wireless ISP there is a minimum cost of installing a new mast and the links to the rest of their network in order to provide service to a new area. They have to recover that in some way, either through setup charges or via a sufficient number of subscriptions for a minimum period. If you negotiate with them collectively, you may be able to get the minimum down to 20-30 rather than 100 but the all-in cost of the service is never going to be as low as a mass market ADSL service.

So the question for you and your parish council is: how many people are there willing to pay significantly more than the mass market rate for an increase in speed from, say, 2 Mbps to 10 Mbps. Most wireless operators know that despite all of the complaints it is rare that more than 20% of households will actually commit themselves to this.

Of course, if you have a nice local benefactor willing to pick up (part of) the tab for the base installation cost, then your options may be different but don't expect anything more than waffle and bureaucracy from BDUK. Business (!) vouchers are not designed to cover the cost of building basic infrastructure and the money is running out, so don't expect much help from that source.
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