General Discussion
  >> General Broadband Chatter


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 15-May-17 01:18:55
Print Post

Bridge tap?


[link to this post]
 
Hi folks.

Can anyone explain what "bridge tap" is please on the availability checker. Image below of what i mean. And the "U" that follows.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2uogvfc.png

Thanks in advance.

Michael.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-May-17 06:14:20
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
A bridge tap in terms of an FTTC circuit in the U.K. is when the point where connection to the modem is made is not from the first point on the circuit (ie the NTE) and this point isn't fitted with a faceplate filter if there is extension wiring connected.

It might also mean the line is star wired prior to the effective NTE.

(Can see no image on the link you posted, though that might be the ad blocker on my phone)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 15-May-17 08:23:31
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
The image I see is a normal BT Wholesale estimates table, with the words "Tags: Bridge" above it. The Tags of course referring to the keyword that some search or other has hit so given this image as a result.

What isn't shown is the text that comes below the table so unless people remember that then it is somewhat mysterious smile. In that text we have the recently introduced explanation of "Impacted" in relation to VDSL.
For VDSL or G.fast Ranges A and B, the term "Clean" relates to a line which is free from any wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions, and the term "Impacted" relates to a line which may have wiring issues (e.g. Bridge Taps) and/or Copper line conditions.
I don't know what the "U" refers to.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 15-May-17 08:42:08)


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 15-May-17 09:19:39
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
You have your explanation ... At a guess, is your house to exchange around 9km and house to cabinet about 3km?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 15-May-17 10:53:21
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for the response Zarjaz,

Easy to understand and detailed response.

Thank you

Michael.
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 15-May-17 11:00:54
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Hi MHC.

To my understanding, no. I've been lead to believe that my line follows a direct path with the road. Given all the mini manholes that are on the grass verge of the route i'm inclined to believe that. But what do i know, i'm far from expert.

So around 3.2km from home to exchange and 3.1km from home to cabinet. By road.
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 15-May-17 11:03:54
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for pointing that out Roberto.

I assumed that always stayed the same. I'll keep a better eye on the text at the bottom from now on.

Thanks

Michael.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 15-May-17 11:12:38
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
Just going by te speedssuggested by the checker. 3 to 3.5 km usually gives anywhere from 1 to 3 Mbps on VDSL - which corresponds to yours.

However, ADSL2+ with a range of 1 to 4 Mbps suggests somewhere in excess of 6 km maybe up to 9km. If your 3.2 is accurate then there is either a major issue between the cabinet and exchange or it is routed a long way round. Is the cabinet just 100m from the exchange?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 15-May-17 12:11:59
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Oh i see why you would think that.

Yes the checker is inaccurate. I currently get 8-9 Mbps with ADSL2+. I'm not sure why the checker is so low.

Yes, the cabinet i'm on is very close to the exchange, might even be less than 100m but not certain.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 15-May-17 12:15:52
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
That is what I would expect from ADSL2+ -, in fact pretty good.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Realalemadrid
(regular) Mon 15-May-17 15:09:20
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
Not seen that text at the bottom of the checker before - " Premise environment Bridge Tap Status U"
So difficult to guess what it means, is there any explanation in the text below the checker results? May have to wait for someone with inside knowledge to respond.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-May-17 16:46:50
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
Now looking on me mac, and can see the detail ........ I wonder if the 'U' stands for unknown or untested maybe ?

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 15-May-17 17:43:28
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Where is this thing with the U please? It wasn't showing on my iPad and isn't on my Win 10 IE11. Only the wodge of usual bumf part of which I have quoted earlier.

Edit: Not on Chrome either.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 15-May-17 17:45:34)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-May-17 17:49:20
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
See lower left hand of image. There you should see the heading "Premise environment" and in the column to the right "Status"
The line below reads "Bridge Tap" with a U in the next column headed "Status".

Edit: Perfectly visible as part of the image here on Win 10 using any of Edge, Firefox or Chrome.

Edited by MCM (Mon 15-May-17 17:50:54)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 15-May-17 18:04:04
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Ahhh smile. Thanks. Mine has an "N".



"Premise" bah frown !!!!!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-May-17 18:12:41
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"Premise" bah frown !!!!!
I thought youwould like that one whichis why I made certain I copied the text exactly as shown in the graphic.

I suspect that as Zarjaz inimated, U = Unknown, your N = No and there will also be as yet unseen "Y"s for Yes, bridge tapped. Makes me wonder whether OR will react and attempt to correct any Ys.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-May-17 20:02:06
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
I suspect that as Zarjaz inimated,(?) U = Unknown, your N = No and there will also be as yet unseen "Y"s for Yes, bridge tapped. Makes me wonder whether OR will react and attempt to correct any Ys.
I feel fairly confident in saying that they will nothing about this unless requested to do so by the CP. Sorting these faults out costs money, money the CP's didn't wish to pay for in the form of engineer installs.

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-May-17 20:52:53
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Understood although whether some of those paying next to nothing for their connection will be happy.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-May-17 21:50:28
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
My BT estimates have been updated too, with N on the Bridge Tap section.

Clean: High 80 low 65.4 was 66.1
Impacted: High 74.6 low 40.4 was 41.6

Also the ADSL estimates have changed as well but didn't note them, just know they have gone up slightly.

Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and TP-Link WD9970 on 80 Meg LLU Fibre
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Current Sync: 68696/18766
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-May-17 12:47:26
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I feel fairly confident in saying that they will nothing about this unless requested to do so by the CP. Sorting these faults out costs money, money the CP's didn't wish to pay for in the form of engineer installs.


You'd hope it signifies a better capability in automatic testing of the line, which can then feed back at the time of sale.

If ISPs can be given a reliable indication of whether the A range or the B range applies, it gives some scope to upsell an engineer install.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 16-May-17 12:51:53
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
You'd hope it signifies a better capability in automatic testing of the line, which can then feed back at the time of sale.

If ISPs can be given a reliable indication of whether the A range or the B range applies, it gives some scope to upsell an engineer install.
Catch 22 though, you cannot make a test for a bridge tap on an FTTC circuit until the service is up and running.

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 16-May-17 17:00:17
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I think it only appears with the telephone number chacker?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 16-May-17 17:28:24
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Yes.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 64513/13170Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 17-May-17 09:38:45
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Catch 22 though, you cannot make a test for a bridge tap on an FTTC circuit until the service is up and running.


I have to admit that I though a TDR - when employed at the exchange end, say, as part of a test head - would highlight reflections from both the main pair and the tap.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 17-May-17 09:39:11
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Ah - that explains why I couldn't see it here frown
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 17-May-17 10:06:07
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Think about it ...

As it is referring to a condition on a specific copper pair, it can only be returned on a telephone number check or for a specific line ID.

An address check cannot as there may be multiple lines serving that address.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User WilliamGrimsley
(experienced) Wed 17-May-17 12:00:01
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
It shows "N" for our number, which I expected. I presume if it says "Y" then the router is connected to an extension?

Router in use: Billion BiPAC 8800AXL.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 17-May-17 12:31:07
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
I seriously doubt that, and even then surely a TDR couldn't differentiate between those extensions connected after an SSFP or without.

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 17-May-17 13:07:20
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
It will certainly highlight the point at which the tap is connected and I too believe there may then be two reflections but discrimination may be difficult.

TDRs can be and are used to locate intercepts (wire taps) on phone lines too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 17-May-17 13:15:43
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Some bare TDR waveforms can be found here:
http://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/Comm01/-%20TestEquip/-%20...

The fifth one shows a few small reflections caused by taps, followed by an unterminated end.

The ninth one shows a splitter in use (probably on coax), with reflections for the 2 legs.

In raw terms, I'd expect a TDR to be able to show reflections from every termination of a line.

However, while this ought to apply to bare lines, I don't know how they'd apply to a BT line that properly terminates in a master.

I imagine that a filter (such as an SSFP) does a good job of hiding any taps that occur behind it ... which should be fine. Taps behind filters are good. Taps before filters are the bad ones.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 17-May-17 20:48:52
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
But 'seeing' it from an exchange based TDR is very unlikely, and still won't show if there is or isn't an SSFP on the NTE.

Standard User woodmass14
(member) Sun 16-Jul-17 12:48:55
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
Just had a look at the availability checker again and is showing more things i don't understand smile

https://ibb.co/e6pBUa

Its showing something called VRI, NTEFaceplate and date last tested. Not to sure what VRI means, tried googling it but couldn't find much.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 16-Jul-17 13:26:31
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
Voice Re-Injection


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 16-Jul-17 13:28:10
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
VRI ... pass ??

I do know they are increasingly asking for more data about lines we visit, what type, location, and is there an SSFP fitted.

Standard User woodmass14
(member) Sun 16-Jul-17 13:46:36
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I'm not to sure what SSFP means.

I'm on adsl2+ if that's what you mean by type. And my exchange is WSLON.

Edit. Had a google of SSFP, It came up with a bunch of faceplates. I use this one
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/images/VDSLMk4front.jpg

Edited by woodmass14 (Sun 16-Jul-17 13:47:48)

Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-Jul-17 15:46:18
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
SSFP Is service specific face plate.

Virgin Media VIVID100
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 17-Jul-17 08:55:00
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: woodmass14] [link to this post]
 
Mine has N for all 3 and says it was last checked the day after yours. Not sure how they checked them as they certainly haven't been to the house or done any visible work on the line. If NTEFaceplate is whether there is a BT fitted NTE with built in filter then mine was installed by a BT engineer when installs were still always done by engineers (no self installs available).
Standard User woodmass14
(member) Mon 17-Jul-17 11:51:51
Print Post

Re: Bridge tap?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps everyone's show as no until bt/openreach get the info they need? I'm not sure though.

Not had an openreach guy at my home in years so not sure how they got the info either. Did have a sky man over last year fitting a faceplate but that's it.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to