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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Sun 03-Sep-17 16:43:15
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ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


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I have a couple of Twitch streams that I frequent, and from time to time I've noticed lag / stutter with them at source speeds.I figured that 10 Meg (my general connection speed) should be adequate, but not so.To be pedantic, my speedtests tend to be 9.5 Meg to 10 Meg.

Here's a look at the TBB monitor in action with 'Source' bit-rate (unknown with specific stream, but probably 900 x 60 or 1080 x 60), 720 x 60 and 720 x 30 - Linky 1

I found it odd that the middle speed registered a lower load on the connection, albeit sustained, rather than bursts.The source speed bursts in that pic are about 10 Meg.

So I decided to try the old SNR to 3dB to see if I could squeeze some more from the connection. The pre-tweak sync was 11,975Kbps, and after tweaking it rose to 13,335Kbps. Running the same tests again, I got this - Linky 2

The source bursts are closer to 11.3 Meg or so, and it seems I have gained a potential 1.25 Meg increase. Yet again, the middle speed of 720 x 60 was sustained and low, but then rose and started bursting. The best thing is that the lag / stutter on source speed seems to be far less. My best guess is that one should have a realistic minimum BB speed of 12 Meg for 900 x 60 or 1080 x 60 to get the best experience.

Pings to TBB since SNR tweak are unchanged - Linky 3. Not sure of the best place on Twitch to trace. live.etc is not responding to ICMP.

Strange that the TBB speedtests are still in the 9.5 Meg to 10 Meg range. Not sure why, and the file downloads are similar - Linky 4. The tests are standard TBB, then standard 50MB file, standard 100MB file, then port 81 50MB file.

For those on ADSL2+ and under 12 Meg, a little SNR tweak might alleviate some of the stream issues. I really should upgrade to FTTC, but until 1080 x 60 streaming, I've not needed it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 03-Sep-17 16:47:01
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
As twitch streaming is LIVE encoding the bit rates are higher for similar quality and frame rates compared to Netflix et all

Guess is the broadcaster is using their GPU to encode as it can chew a CPU encoding at high bit rates

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Sun 03-Sep-17 17:25:19
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well go figure this. Watching another LIVE stream right now (UK streamer on Twitch) and at 1080 x 60, the DL speeds are ranging from 4 Meg to 6 Meg. confused


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 04-Sep-17 08:35:37
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Without knowing all the details of how they are encoding difficult to say much

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Sep-17 09:27:07
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
Well go figure this. Watching another LIVE stream right now (UK streamer on Twitch) and at 1080 x 60, the DL speeds are ranging from 4 Meg to 6 Meg. confused

Its Twitch at fault, my Infinity 4 has issues buffering, stuttering etc when watching US Streams and also US Live Streams, UK Streams are fine.

I can also see that Twitch just stops sending me the stream most of the time, where as I can watch sever 4K YouTube Streams at the same time.

I reported it to Twitch Support and basically got a non US user we don't care type of response, which is a shame due to most of my US friends Twitch Stream.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310Mbps (down), 31Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User EddyTheDog
(regular) Mon 04-Sep-17 13:01:17
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
I've found Twitch a strange beast to watch. I have 5 browsers installed on my laptop and very often have to take pot luck which one will work. More often than not the video streams just don't get sent.

But, here's the thing. I just went to Twitch in Opera with the VPN set to a US IP address, and everything just worked. Coincidence? Maybe, who knows..
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Sep-17 14:40:01
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: EddyTheDog] [link to this post]
 
Was it the east coast of the US by any chance?

The way I think Twitch works is when you are streaming to Twitch it will use the closest server with the lowest latency.
So if you are streaming from the UK it will pick a server close to that.

Now when you watch a stream Twitch will tell your browser what server has the stream on it, so your browser connects to that server to get the stream.

Most is not all the streams I watch that are from the US are from the West Coast, around 156ms to 200ms latency for me.

The streams from the UK play flawlessly with no drops nothing, now streams from the US I either get dropped frames or it will play for X time and then just stop sending me the Stream.

The largest size of data Twitch sends me is about 11 Mbps and that's for a 1920x1080@60fps, there is noting stopping Twitch from sending me more data.

I can see this being an issue for live streams from the user due to higher latency.

At this point I am unsure which side is stopping the stream being sent, it might be Twitch thinking I have gone or got too far behind, or it might be my browsers, but surly it wouldn't be all browsers because its happening on all browser I have tried and that's including the Twitch Desktop App.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 310Mbps (down), 31Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 04-Sep-17 15:52:28
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: EddyTheDog] [link to this post]
 
Can't say I've had browser issues, other than FF with the flash plugin issue of high CPU usage (not a Twitch-specific issue).

Using Opera, and all streams are good, other than the bandwidth issue.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 04-Sep-17 15:56:03
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I think the streamer with my issues is from Canada, but he may be based in the US, or using US servers. I tried another UK stream last night and again while the stream was 1080 x 60 the bandwidth was only 3-4 Meg. I'm sure there's a bitrate factor happening there, but am not too savvy on the bitrate / encoding systems.

I have a feeling that the UK Twitch servers probably don't cache streams from abroad (the non-live vids of streams are just as heavy as live streams). All that data on that distance must have an overhead.

Or maybe it's the specific streamer's encoding not up to date.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 04-Sep-17 16:39:46
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Re: ADSL2+ and Twitch Streaming


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Latency is a joke on twitch, since chat can be 20 to 30 seconds behind the video leading to confusion for all and wrecking interaction with hosts at times

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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