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Standard User BestofTimes
(newbie) Wed 08-Nov-17 09:26:18
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REIN


[link to this post]
 
I'll outline the physical details first.

I live in rural Northumberland at the same address for 27 years
I receive landline service from the Capheaton exchange
Capheaton has been fitted for fibre connections, but onl provides FTTC service to Capheaton village itself. The rest of us are too far away.
It's an EO line as are most provisions here
Straight line distance to the exchange is about 4.6 km
Line length is over 5 km
There is very poor 3G mobile reception outdoors only and no 4G/5G service at all
Within the house there is a normal BT master socket with no extensions. The only connections into it are the landline phone and the router, the latter being on a shelf immediately above the master socket and within 1m

When I first moved here our voice provision was via shared service, subsequently progressing through DACS eventually progressing to the point where ADSL became available about 7 years ago.

Now for obvious reasons given the basic details above, I've never expected to be able to download Netflix et al, but the service has been reasonably consistent for some years at just under or just over 1 Mbps. Sufficient for browsing and email at least without too many difficulties.

On the 10th of October, at 20:00, the connection speed nosedived to it's current level of 0.3 Mbps and has stubbornly remained there ever since. There are 25 Houses in the hamlet and of the people having broadband service, 90% have reported almost identical deterioration starting at or around the same time.

After the usual reboots and wiring checking we have reported faults to our ISP's and Openreach have attended several properties since this started, including my own, I have no complaint about the ISP response or indeed Openreach - well other than the fact that the fault remains unresolved that is.

We have now been told that the problem is one of REIN origin. I've read up on this and understand that the causes are potentially complex and not the easiest things in the world to pin down. We have tried to find out if anyone either in the houses or farms adjacent to the cable route have installed any new electrical equipment or burglar alarms etc but nothing has come to light so far.

The slight sickener in all this is that there are premises within 500m of us served by the Belsay exchange that have full FTTP installations. Unfortunately not in direct line of sight or else I might start thinking about wireless installations. I have no wish to go down the satellite route and in any event there are problems with the planning authorities regarding dish installations here. As noted above there is poor 3G service outdoors only and no 4G/5G service at all. There are therefore no practical alternatives to landline provision of service at the moment

Apologies for expanding on a tale of woe at length, but Openreach are going to undertake a full REIN investigation over the next few days and I was wondering if any forum members have had experiences of this and the level of success achieved from such investigations in the past. I appreciate that there are rarely completely identical circumstances and that each case will be different, but any pointers will be welcome.

Martin
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 08-Nov-17 11:45:21
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Re: REIN


[re: BestofTimes] [link to this post]
 
Success is a do they find it and resolve it or not.

On the issue, do router stats from the various homes confirm attenuation has remained stable but connection speeds have dropped while still using the same target noise margin?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 08-Nov-17 13:07:03
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Re: REIN


[re: BestofTimes] [link to this post]
 
You may be able to help OR - who will do their best. It sounds as thougt you know the route the cables take, so drive or walk that ALL the way back to the exchange. Look for any road works that have recently taken place - including on verges and footpaths and any traffic lights. Look for any new equipment that a landowner or residents has - generator, Christmas lights &c. Anything new might be a cause.


As for the 500m to an FTTP point - how many hops would it take on masts or buildings to get to you? You may find a route that works - then with your neighbours install a series of links and then a local network.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 08-Nov-17 14:02:44
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Re: REIN


[re: BestofTimes] [link to this post]
 
It doesn’t have to be new equipment, old stuff going faulty causes it too.

If it is just causing slow speeds I’d suggest that the source (if it is REIN) is some way off.

Has anyone had a sniff about with a MW radio tuned to 612 ?

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 08-Nov-17 14:51:54
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Re: REIN


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
It doesn’t have to be new equipment, old stuff going faulty causes it too.


True, but new is easier to spot and something the OP could initiate.


DSL stats may also be of assistance - set to ADSL tones and look for any big notches and are they repeated across each poroperty?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User BestofTimes
(newbie) Wed 08-Nov-17 14:57:11
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Re: REIN


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
For mine and my immediate neighbour, yes. it will take a little time to collect the others as people come home from work

Downstream attenuation has never varied from 63.5 dB the entire time I've had an ADSL service it's a very long line. Upstream shows 31.5 dB.

The noise margin has certainly remained constant since the episode on the 10th October but I'm afraid I've not got any records prior to that date. Downstream is 14.2 dB, upstream is 10 dB.

Martin
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 08-Nov-17 15:09:09
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Re: REIN


[re: BestofTimes] [link to this post]
 
Those attenuation figures are almost certainly the modem's maxed out value and your real levels will be greater than those - some modems do show figures into the 80s for downstream but a lot stop at 63.5/31.5

As your margin is 14.2 then there is a possibility that the source has gone and you may slowly climb back to your original speed and 6dB margin. The BT Tech may not be able to find a REIN problem if is is stable at 14.2

Given you have a long line, what modem/hub are you using? Some are better on longer lines than others and can give just a little more speed..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User BestofTimes
(newbie) Wed 08-Nov-17 15:13:30
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Re: REIN


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
You may be able to help OR - who will do their best. It sounds as thougt you know the route the cables take, so drive or walk that ALL the way back to the exchange. Look for any road works that have recently taken place - including on verges and footpaths and any traffic lights. Look for any new equipment that a landowner or residents has - generator, Christmas lights &c. Anything new might be a cause.


As for the 500m to an FTTP point - how many hops would it take on masts or buildings to get to you? You may find a route that works - then with your neighbours install a series of links and then a local network.


For the roughly 1/3 of the route that is highway accessible there are no roadworks or excavations of any type. The remainder of the route crosses open farmland which is not directly accessible by vehicle and Only with difficulty on foot.since there are no public footpaths. I have asked the 4 landowners concerned for consent and await their reply. The nearest set of traffic lights is 14 miles away so I'm pretty certain they can be eliminated.

No neighbour has reported having any new electrical kit and my bet is that it is something on one or more of the farms. The timings though do not conform to any agricultural usage of which I'm aware.

As to the radio plan, it's open countryside and there are no buildings tall enough to provide clear los. I would thing two tmasts would be needed, the problem being that the planning authority have already given a formal opinion that planning consent would be refused. There is also the little matter of the fee that the estate owner would charge for allowing us to put masts up in the first place.

Martin
Standard User BestofTimes
(newbie) Wed 08-Nov-17 15:16:38
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Re: REIN


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
It doesn’t have to be new equipment, old stuff going faulty causes it too.

If it is just causing slow speeds I’d suggest that the source (if it is REIN) is some way off.

Has anyone had a sniff about with a MW radio tuned to 612 ?


Yes, that is the reason that the first OR engineer came to the conclusion of REIN being the most likely cause after having checked the internal wiring, drop wire and poling.

Martin
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 08-Nov-17 15:17:36
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Re: REIN


[re: BestofTimes] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BestofTimes:
As to the radio plan, it's open countryside and there are no buildings tall enough to provide clear los. I would thing two tmasts would be needed, the problem being that the planning authority have already given a formal opinion that planning consent would be refused. There is also the little matter of the fee that the estate owner would charge for allowing us to put masts up in the first place.

Martin


You don't need a direct line - you could for example run four sides of a hexagon to skirt round a hill. They don't need masts - just the corner of a barn, house, water tower or grain silo. And those owners would get the benefits by tapping off as it went through their land ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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