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Standard User sheephouse
(regular) Thu 04-Jan-18 13:50:30
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21CN WBC


[link to this post]
 
Some time ago I asked here about the 21CN WBC roll-out to replace ADSL Max - I had been told (by both BT Wholesale and OpenReach) that there were no plans to upgrade my exchange (SSNRD - Netherend), which conflicted with the announcement that all ADSL exchanges were to be upgraded. I was assured that there probably would be an upgrade at some point.

Well, after one false start with a resulting couple of months delay, it was upgraded on 3rd November. My connection gone from ADSL Max Premium to ADSL2+, and since the start of Nov I have sync speeds of 15Mbs down, 1Mbps up - much better smile

My question now is why does Codelook, Samknows, etc still report that 21CN WBC is not at my exchange - it has been 2 months since the upgrade. The codelook database was updated yesterday, so should match the BT Wholesale database - the BT dslchecker has shown ADSL2+ since 4th November. Is it possible to have ADSL2+ without 21CN WBC?

Codelook says: 20CN ADSL, 21CN None, Fibre Not Available

SamKnows says: 21CN WBC status: Not available
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 04-Jan-18 14:12:34
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
As you have ADSL2+ that seems to be the key fact. 20CN/21CN is largely irrelevant to you as it is how BT manage the exchange and you won't see any difference based on where you currently are. It may be that all the databases are wrong but the fact you already have ADSL2+ means even if they are it won't make any difference in reality to you.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 04-Jan-18 14:17:42
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
BT Wholesale ADSL2+ is 21CN WBC.

What you are seeing is the update cycle of the various checkers, we'd probably have picked it up once the rush to the 95% was over and our more regular cycle of verifications for changes like this starts again. Just pushed the change through now for Netherend.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User sheephouse
(regular) Thu 04-Jan-18 14:21:26
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I wasn't expecting any difference to my connection - I was just wondering whether there was a reason why 21CN WBC wasn't reported.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 04-Jan-18 15:51:59
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
Samknows has much bigger fish to fry these days from money-making activities. Updates to the exchange info was one of the first to become unreliable.

For instance, it still shows exchanges as Market 1,2,3 4. Those classifications went out of the window in (IIRC) 2014. There is now only Market A and Market B.

As a rule of thumb I assume that if Samknows says something is there then it is. If it says it isn't I ignore what it says and if I really want to know look around other sources.

At one time they did update specific details if someone notified them of an error. I got something corrected. They have a link for such at the bottom of the centre block of the exchange info page.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 74145/13476Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 04-Jan-18 15:52:30)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Jan-18 17:04:23
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
Some time ago I asked here about the 21CN WBC roll-out to replace ADSL Max - I had been told (by both BT Wholesale and OpenReach) that there were no plans to upgrade my exchange (SSNRD - Netherend), which conflicted with the announcement that all ADSL exchanges were to be upgraded. I was assured that there probably would be an upgrade at some point.
About a year ago BT announced a plan to upgrade all exchanges to ADSL2 by the end of this year.

The challenge is to find out when a particular exchange will be upgraded, though as Vodafone 38Mbps is relatively cheap, I have rather lost interest in this subject.

Michael Chare
Standard User sheephouse
(regular) Thu 04-Jan-18 17:25:30
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
I suspect that the final BT upgrades are more to do with removing aging and expensive to maintain equipment than with providing better broadband. It is frustrating trying to get any information though. I had BT Business trying to supply me with a usable broadband, and the BT Business manager just couldn't get any information. When he asked when the exchange would be upgraded he was told "never, ever, ever", and yet it was upgraded less than a year later. He was very helpful, but in the end had to give up and admit the best he could do was bonded ADSL Max Premium (at the time I would probably have gone for a leased line, but they eventually refused to quote for that as they said it would be an 11 mile dig! I don't believe that as I have fibre passing 30 feet from my house running to the exchange that is just a mile away).

I now use ADSL2+ and Three 4g line balanced. Depending on the time of day I get anything from 12/1 and 38/28 throughput - typically I get 20/18 which is usable. If necessary I can now swap to EE for faster 4G (I have measured it at 78 down, 32 up) but it is significantly more expensive than Three which is costing me just £30/month for 100GB.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 04-Jan-18 17:50:20
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
About a year ago BT announced a plan to upgrade all exchanges to ADSL2 by the end of this year.
wink Oh no they didn't wink. It's ADSL Max or ADSL2+.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 74145/13476Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Thu 04-Jan-18 17:59:27
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
That fibre probably dosnt goto the local exchange but a distant exchange where the headed is located for a number of exchange areas.
Leased lines dosnt utilise the same fibre architecture and may need an entirely new route to a different exchange
Standard User sheephouse
(regular) Thu 04-Jan-18 18:10:16
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
The fibre passing my house does connect the local exchange (or rather the two cabinets associated with the local exchange) to a head exchange - but I have no idea where that is. If it is the same one that would service a leased line then it is some miles away. And since the ducts were cleaned out/replaced a couple of years ago, presumably that doesn't count towards the "dig" for a leased line.
According to the team of engineers that installed it there is also cable for a planned "node" in the manhole near my house (next nearest house is about 200m away, so it presumably won't be a distribution node of any kind). The BT Business sales rep could also see it in the plans but couldn't find any information about what was planned or when),
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Thu 04-Jan-18 19:18:31
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
The headend for Netherend is in Chepstow exchange
Standard User sheephouse
(regular) Thu 04-Jan-18 19:33:59
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
The head exchange is only 4 miles from my house then. I wonder where the 11 miles came from?
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Thu 04-Jan-18 19:37:56
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
Headends are for FTTC/FTTP . Leased lines have a different architecture and may require and entirely different route to another exchange
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Jan-18 19:51:09
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
About a year ago BT announced a plan to upgrade all exchanges to ADSL2 by the end of this year.
wink Oh no they didn't wink. It's ADSL Max or ADSL2+.
I suspect that after the upgrade more users could then get ADSL2 rather than ADSL2+smile

When a local exchange was upgraded Plusnet used to like downgrading the ADSL2+ connection to ADSL2 as in theory it might work slightly better.

Michael Chare
Standard User ian007jen
(experienced) Thu 04-Jan-18 20:12:58
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Any info on 21CN upgrade on SWRSO?
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Thu 04-Jan-18 20:21:35
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
When a local exchange was upgraded Plusnet used to like downgrading the ADSL2+ connection to ADSL2 as in theory it might work slightly better.

Where did that come from as I have never heard that an ISP could do that on the BT wholesale nerwork . End users may have the capability to force an ADSL2 connection on their routers
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Thu 04-Jan-18 20:23:38
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: ian007jen] [link to this post]
 
I don't know anything about 21CN upgrades. Maybe someone else does?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 04-Jan-18 22:22:52
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
I suspect that after the upgrade more users could then get ADSL2 rather than ADSL2+smile
That's a rather pointless remark. It equates to saying "I suspect that on an autobahn more cars can do 70mph than can do 140mph".

The field research into using ADSL2 instead of ADSL2+ on longish lines was pioneered by Be/O2 LLU users, (with me as a leading light about it on these forums), in the days before WBC ADSL2+ had even been released.

It only works for a tiny proportion of connections and depends on many factors. A prime one being the way the user modem calculates the average attenuation across the frequency range allied to the flawed way the optimum sync is negotiated on ADSLx circuits.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 74145/13476Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 04-Jan-18 22:23:14)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Jan-18 22:57:30
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps you have not had a line with 63db attenuation.

Michael Chare
Standard User Gadget
(committed) Tue 16-Jan-18 09:57:27
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Re: 21CN WBC


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
BTWholesale plans that may or may not upgrade any exchange would not be allowed to be discussed or released to any individual ISP internal or external until the information was made available to all their customers.
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