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Standard User agregj
(newbie) Thu 11-Jan-18 19:32:04
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How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[link to this post]
 
I live on a small estate of 8 houses with shockingly bad broadband
Virgin and Openreach are both unwilling to connect a better service in the foreseeable future so I'm looking at the option of procuring a leased line and cabling the estate to distribute a better broadband service.
Key question is "how much bandwidth should I seek to procure?". One provider says they work on 100Mbps for 50 properties, but other reference data suggests that 4k streaming needs 12-15Mbps which means each house could only watch 1 movie each (assuming we all watch a 4k movie simultaneously)
Buying a 100Mbps service on a 100Mbps bearer is infinitely cheaper than buying the same on a 1Gbps bearer.
How much do I need now and how much for the future?
Thanks
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 11-Jan-18 20:38:06
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
All depends on what everyone is doing.

4K really needs 20 to 25 Mbps, so how many of you are likely to want to do that at the same time? Plus is there is gamer downloading masses via Steam for example..

If you were to limit each property to 30 Mbps then the 100 Mbps would probably work out.

The 100 Mbps on 1 Gbps is that 100 Mbps guaranteed with burst to 1 Gbps?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agregj
(newbie) Thu 11-Jan-18 20:54:00
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Many thanks for your thoughts. It's difficult to gauge these things but if you think 100 Mbps dedicated service would average out at providing 30Mbps per house then that is significantly better than the +1 Mbps we all currently get!

The key decision is whether we go for a 1Gbps bearer with 100Mbps connection, for future proofing as most quotes for leased lines are for 36 months. My sense is that 30Mbps is OK for know, but might not be great in a few years time


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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Jan-18 21:03:19
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
I'm struggling to see how this works from a legal perspective, the leased line owner becomes liable for everything on the pipe as far as I know, so if a neighbour goes on Child Pornography as one example, it gets traced back to the leased line account holder, and investigations begin at that user. LIkewise, for copyright downloads e.g. torrents.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 11-Jan-18 21:41:38
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Some form of entity would need creating, and the attribution of behaviour could be handled with static ip address allocation

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Jan-18 22:53:41
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
Average usage is less than 2Mb/s per customer. 100Mb would be fine to sell 50Mb or more to 8 properties.

There will probably be periods where everyone can't get full speeds but that's unavoidable.

100Mb will be adequate for a while. The more complex part will be getting the cabling in place across the 8 properties.

My VM Business experience so far - spoiler: it's not ideal.
Standard User jdigz7
(regular) Fri 12-Jan-18 04:17:02
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
Maybe something to think about but might want to enquire with the household's to see what they would want to pay for a decent internet connection.

e.g.

If i needed to do this with 8 households on my street and a leased line the quote i have is

500Mbit on 1Gbit provided by Virgin Cisco equipment supplied and lead time 3 months.

£650 divided by 8 just over £80 per household.


62.5Mbit per household pretty sure that would be perfectly fine for the next 3 years.

Expensive but if all households are on 1mbit connections it's almost as good in my eyes as group FTTPoD investment.









In reply to a post by agregj:
Many thanks for your thoughts. It's difficult to gauge these things but if you think 100 Mbps dedicated service would average out at providing 30Mbps per house then that is significantly better than the +1 Mbps we all currently get!

The key decision is whether we go for a 1Gbps bearer with 100Mbps connection, for future proofing as most quotes for leased lines are for 36 months. My sense is that 30Mbps is OK for know, but might not be great in a few years time
Standard User agregj
(newbie) Fri 12-Jan-18 08:57:45
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
That's a really good point - thanks The line will be procured by the company that was created to manage the estate, but your comment does suggest that a fair usage and legal policy would need to be written for each house to sign up to
Standard User agregj
(newbie) Fri 12-Jan-18 09:04:16
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - agreed. Do you think it worth having a static IP address for each house and/or use monitoring software at the switch to record usage?
Standard User agregj
(newbie) Fri 12-Jan-18 10:15:04
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. We're lucky that the developer 20 years ago laid 96mm duct from the estate entrance to all the homes, specifically for fibre (must have run out of money because the fibre was never installed!), so i'm hoping that there's very little digging to be done.

I'd welcome any suggestions and or pointers on what infrastructure/kit would be best (cable, switches, modems and routers etc)?

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
Average usage is less than 2Mb/s per customer. 100Mb would be fine to sell 50Mb or more to 8 properties.

There will probably be periods where everyone can't get full speeds but that's unavoidable.

100Mb will be adequate for a while. The more complex part will be getting the cabling in place across the 8 properties.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 12-Jan-18 10:39:23
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
Have you investigated the possibility of gap funding a BT/OR installation of fibre? There may be an up front cost for all properties, however, monthly costs will be lower and no additional equipment for the management company to procure and maintain.


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Standard User craski
(committed) Fri 12-Jan-18 12:08:20
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
I run a community network and we have 12 users each limited to a 10Mb down, 2 Mb up which provides a step change improvement over the 7.5km long land lines where the best was around 2Mb down and worst would drop in and out of sync at 0.25 Mb. Users cant do 4k streaming on the connection but HD is no problem. We see traffic peaks at 50Mb for very brief periods but typically it runs at around 30 Mb.

When I initially set things up I would have sworn I would have required much more bandwidth. In my opinion, a dedicated bandwidth of 100Mb for 8 users will be more than adequate for several years yet.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Jan-18 16:20:35
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
To put things into comparison my office has 150Mbps leased line down and up, we have 300 employees, no restrictions on streaming etc. Plenty put youtube playlists on all day and no noticeable issues.

If I run a speedtest I get 140+ Meg most of the time and it always feels super quick.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 12-Jan-18 16:21:18)

Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 12-Jan-18 20:20:12
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: agregj] [link to this post]
 
I don't know if you have already done this but.

1st step would be to find out just what the householders would like and what they would like to do online. and then find out how much they are prepared to pay.
Don't forget to factor in, if the current residents move out. Would the new residents be prepared to pay the same.
Or you could end up with one big bill to pay yourself.

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Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User craski
(committed) Fri 12-Jan-18 21:57:51
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Nice comparison and useful feedback.
I do think home use is heavily influenced by streaming video these days. That and gamers on services like Steam. In a house of four with two streaming and one gamer I know my daily data usage at home is considerable more than what I consume at work, easily by a factor 10.

Zen Business FTTC BQM
Talk Talk Business FTTC BQM
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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 13-Jan-18 10:31:01
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: craski] [link to this post]
 
Or put another way if there are 2 or 3 gamers who use Steam then at times of things like Steam Sales or big game launches things would get busy

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agregj
(newbie) Sun 14-Jan-18 15:11:15
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Re: How much bandwidth for a small estate?


[re: craski] [link to this post]
 
Hi
Thanks for all the input and insight. My sense is that the pipe needs to be at least 200Mbps to cover all 8 houses and to be future proof enough to prevent performance blips. In the future (and before the 36 month leased line contract runs out), 4k/HDR will likely be the standard......a possible, but probably not regular scenario, might be all 8 houses watching streamed World Cup Final live all on 4K and all at the same time (each property will need 20-25Mbps)

100 Mbps could work for now, but with a 36 month contract (and the chances of houses being sold during that period - great point btw), there is no scope for expansion unless we install a 1Gb bearer from the get go, and if I'm doing that, I may as well buy the 200Mbps at the same time as the difference in cost is negligible.

Can anyone point me towards where I can find some information on what sort of switches, cable, modems etc we will need to install the network within the estate?



In reply to a post by craski:
Nice comparison and useful feedback.
I do think home use is heavily influenced by streaming video these days. That and gamers on services like Steam. In a house of four with two streaming and one gamer I know my daily data usage at home is considerable more than what I consume at work, easily by a factor 10.
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