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Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Mon 14-May-18 10:37:38
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If you join Openreach today then I'd look on it as a 10 to 15 year career, i.e. once fttp largely all built they can scale back


I hope not! Lots of staff retire or leave every year so if they’re smart about it they can just start not replacing leavers in a few years and it will level out. So much of the last part of the new FTTP build will be overhead that you’ll always need people to repair that when it goes wrong.

Icaras
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-May-18 10:44:38
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: bowdon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bowdon:
I would still like to see the original plan for G.fast on poles idea along with full fibre networks. I think G.fast in that form would have satisfied the hunger for speed while keeping costs low.


It wouldn't have kept costs low. The difference in cost between the pods Openreach are deploying and pushing fibre to DPs is huge. The cost of deploying fibre per premises passed is lower than the cost pushing G.fast to DPs. The only saving comes from cost per premises connected.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-May-18 10:49:35
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
Anybody who is time served in the local loops will know that chucking stuff unprotected in the ground in shallow trenches is madness.

Especially when said plant does not show up on a common or garden cable detector.

It will end in tears. It always does.


Is anyone direct burying? It's going inside microducts with tape over the top to warn there's fibre there.

I know of no-one that's direct burying their plant.

No-one's burying the access network stuff any deeper than 400mm.


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Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-May-18 10:53:38
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
We'll soon get to test demand as gfast has been installed all over the larger exchanges in my manor. Hundreds of them.

If punters don't buy gfast faster speeds like their not buying it where fttp and or Virgin is already available, do you advise massive expansion of fttp

I thnk fibre is showing all the signs of a bubble. Lot of noise, speculation, firms borrowing huge sums but few punters.


In the case of Openreach it'll save them a huge amount of money in the longer term. If your livelihood depends on maintaining copper networks it's one that definitely has a lifespan.

Verizon's replacement of copper with FTTP is saving them a fair chunk of change on maintenance and real estate costs.

The main enemy to FTTP is the regulatory environment. If that become more supportive things can change fairly rapidly.

The great thing about FTTP is that we can assess it against a whole bunch of other places in the rest of the world, it's not some brave new world that the UK is pioneering. There are obviously differences for the UK market however without Ofcom's meddling these may change somewhat.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 14-May-18 10:57:30
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
Would these areas be better off if BT used the money to increase payments to staff, pensioners and shareholders who would in turn spend the money in the local economy rather than spending on stuff nobody wants to buy?


No. If BT had the ability to do that they'd be making too much money and would be regulated accordingly.

The payments to pensioners are quite subsidised enough by existing shareholders and customers. The company claims it'll be able to preserve its dividends. If it were able to do that and buy back its own shares based on what Openreach are spending or not spending Ofcom would likely want a chat.

Staff are presumably paid the market rate for their services. If they are unhappy with their remuneration package and conditions other employers are available and there's a fair degree of unionisation so collective bargaining can be done.

Either way I would hope the capital expenditure budget and operating expenditure budget are quite different things. Due to the regulation BT Group can pour money into Openreach at their convenience however transfers the other way will, rightly, be a cause for concern.

Areas where people all buy Infinity 1 are not the norm that's presumably the demographics of the area - nationwide there are more people on 80Mb services than 40Mb now I believe. With other operators building for BT to have the funds to continue to pay their staff, continue to pay their shareholders and manage their bills they have deduced they need to invest. Vodafone et al aren't going after just their retail operation, they want the wholesale cash too, and with the insane prices Openreach charge for FTTP at the higher end and the lack of any products above 330Mb it does become an 'issue'.

Rest assured, BT aren't doing this for their health and aren't doing it because they feel like it. They're doing it to preserve market share, preserve revenues and, in time, protect profit margins. They will save a lot of money from shutting down exchanges in terms of rent, power, etc, and a lot of staffing costs in not having metal to maintain.

Openreach staff obviously may not like this but when it comes down to it if Vodafone and others are building there are no real options. Openreach either lose the metal or lose out entirely.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Mon 14-May-18 11:04:26)

Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Mon 14-May-18 12:06:26
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
If there is existing Openreach duct that is used for FTTP, or overhead delivery if lines arrive via poles today.


I think it will surprise people how much of the FTTP rollout will be overhead. Areas where the cable is direct in ground with armoured cable will be supplied overhead via new poles. Also, where there are multiple blockages that would prove too expensive to sort. Basically whatever is the cheapest for Openreach and often that’s overhead.

Icaras
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 14-May-18 12:46:58
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
They will need people but I'd expect a bump in Openreach building actual network staff and once complete a down sizing.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 14-May-18 12:58:58
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Installing G.Fast or FTTP in areas that currently have low speeds is still not going to see people jumping from low speeds to top speeds. What it will mean is that it will allow people to get the 40/10 and 80/20 tiers at a reasonable cost - but that doesn't bring BT any more revenue than they get now on VDSL.
Depends what you mean be low speeds. FTTP does not suffer from the distance problems that plague DSL services, and is ideal if all you can get is less than 2Mbps DSL.

Michael Chare
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 14-May-18 13:07:55
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
The main enemy to FTTP is the regulatory environment. If that become more supportive things can change fairly rapidly.
Would you like to explain your reaons for this statement.

Michael Chare
Standard User Malwaremike
(committed) Mon 14-May-18 13:23:40
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Re: Is There Demand For Ultra Fast?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Is anyone direct burying? It's going inside microducts with tape over the top to warn there's fibre there.
I know of no-one that's direct burying their plant.

Virgin Media now installing one microduct (green plastic about 12mm diameter) across many towns in Northern Ireland. One duct from each house runs to end-of-street cabinet, from which further ducts run to ??exchanges??. Between our two towns, the bunch of microducts has been laid in earth along the grass central reservation of a two-mile dual carriageway, thereafter along grass verges.

The ducts are laid in a 300mm deep trench with green plastic tape laid over them before backfilling. Roads are crossed with the microducts fed through a corrugated plastic pipe (like a field drain) which is then topped with concrete before restoration of the blacktop running course. Given that most footways are now used as car parks, and HGVs regularly driving onto them for unloading and phone calls, I think damage is inevitable especially as road surfaces are already deteriorating, I hardly need to point this out!
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