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Standard User iefbr14
(newbie) Tue 15-May-18 10:41:58
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Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[link to this post]
 
I heard a few months back that ISP's can now request BT to remotely reset fibre DLM on lines. Up to 1,000 per day per ISP, which would seem to show that BT have finally admitted that DLM is not as perfect as they used to claim.

Has anyone heard of this new procedure being used in practise ?
Standard User dewt
(learned) Wed 16-May-18 07:54:51
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
I have had my DLM reset several times without an engineer visit. Whether this was triggered by a request from my ISP (Vodafone) or by an engineer doing work elsewhere on my line I couldn't say.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-May-18 08:19:29
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: dewt] [link to this post]
 
So how do you know it was a DLM reset, rather than the DLM imposing a change or just a usual resync due to a noise event?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User dewt
(learned) Wed 16-May-18 08:36:46
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
While I can't guarantee that it was a reset, on each occaision I had spoken with Vodafone tier 2 support (the behind the scenes tech experts) within the previous day and the subject of a DLM reset had been raised by them on each occaision. The speed on my line jumped each time (normally doubling to arround 5mbps). This would then drop over a period of several weeks each time there was heavy rain/cold snaps until the speed again was around the 2.5mbps mark. That is what leads me to believe it had had a manual reset of some kind.
Standard User steve195527
(newbie) Wed 16-May-18 08:56:25
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: dewt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dewt:
While I can't guarantee that it was a reset, on each occaision I had spoken with Vodafone tier 2 support (the behind the scenes tech experts) within the previous day and the subject of a DLM reset had been raised by them on each occaision. The speed on my line jumped each time (normally doubling to arround 5mbps). This would then drop over a period of several weeks each time there was heavy rain/cold snaps until the speed again was around the 2.5mbps mark. That is what leads me to believe it had had a manual reset of some kind.

Are you def on fibre and not adsl?with adsl the isp as far more control over your line and can themselves change things including resetting the dlm without openreach being involved
Standard User Icaras
(experienced) Wed 16-May-18 09:03:26
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steve195527:
In reply to a post by dewt:
While I can't guarantee that it was a reset, on each occaision I had spoken with Vodafone tier 2 support (the behind the scenes tech experts) within the previous day and the subject of a DLM reset had been raised by them on each occaision. The speed on my line jumped each time (normally doubling to arround 5mbps). This would then drop over a period of several weeks each time there was heavy rain/cold snaps until the speed again was around the 2.5mbps mark. That is what leads me to believe it had had a manual reset of some kind.

Are you def on fibre and not adsl?with adsl the isp as far more control over your line and can themselves change things including resetting the dlm without openreach being involved


You seem to be missing the point of this whole thread.

Icaras
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-May-18 09:30:16
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steve195527:
Are you def on fibre and not adsl?with adsl the isp as far more control over your line and can themselves change things including resetting the dlm without openreach being involved
G.993.5. Thatís VDSL2+ with vectoring support.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 66321/13379Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User steve195527
(newbie) Wed 16-May-18 10:06:21
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Icaras:
In reply to a post by steve195527:
In reply to a post by dewt:
While I can't guarantee that it was a reset, on each occaision I had spoken with Vodafone tier 2 support (the behind the scenes tech experts) within the previous day and the subject of a DLM reset had been raised by them on each occaision. The speed on my line jumped each time (normally doubling to arround 5mbps). This would then drop over a period of several weeks each time there was heavy rain/cold snaps until the speed again was around the 2.5mbps mark. That is what leads me to believe it had had a manual reset of some kind.

Are you def on fibre and not adsl?with adsl the isp as far more control over your line and can themselves change things including resetting the dlm without openreach being involved


You seem to be missing the point of this whole thread.

and what is the "point" pray tell?if he isn't on fibre the whole point about remote reset of dlm is "pointless" in his case as it is already something the isp can do,as far as my isp is concerned(ident) only openreach can reset the line at the moment but the isp should/will be having more control in the future,not as much as on adsl but more than at the moment(which is very near "nil-control")
Standard User dewt
(learned) Wed 16-May-18 11:28:19
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steve195527:
In reply to a post by dewt:
While I can't guarantee that it was a reset, on each occaision I had spoken with Vodafone tier 2 support (the behind the scenes tech experts) within the previous day and the subject of a DLM reset had been raised by them on each occaision. The speed on my line jumped each time (normally doubling to arround 5mbps). This would then drop over a period of several weeks each time there was heavy rain/cold snaps until the speed again was around the 2.5mbps mark. That is what leads me to believe it had had a manual reset of some kind.

Are you def on fibre and not adsl?with adsl the isp as far more control over your line and can themselves change things including resetting the dlm without openreach being involved


I'm on FTTC and the UPTO 38Mbps offering from Vodafone.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-May-18 11:32:34
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
I can see you didn't follow the link I gave.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 66321/13379Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User steve195527
(newbie) Wed 16-May-18 11:57:36
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I can see you didn't follow the link I gave.

no I didn't,didn't notice it to be honest
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-May-18 12:12:26
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
Dons yellow florescent jacket and says deep breath, keep calm and we can all get along

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 16-May-18 12:40:47
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
I requested a DLM reset for one of my FTTC/VDSL2 connections which was banded somehow. It took a while to get done though as TTB originally weren't part of the trial, but AAISP and TTB sorted it in the end smile.
Standard User iefbr14
(newbie) Wed 16-May-18 18:48:09
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
OK - to clarify my original question - with added info. to keep the thread on topic (hopefully).

Due to multiple failed firmware updates, reboots, factory resets and swaps of routers, all being done under the guidance of my ISP, DLM - quite rightly - reacted by increasing my SNRs. Once all the messing around had been finished I was left with a line running nearly 30% down on the "before" number (actual throughput, max downstream is unaffected).

The expectation was that DLM would recognise the return of stability and slowly take the brakes off. This has not happened and 16 days later I am still running with SNRs over 10 dB on a line that used to support 6 dB or less.

It has been suggested that this is symptomatic of a banded line, which a DLM reset would resolve or at least be a very good diagnostic check.

My ISP is insisting that a potentially chargeable engineer visit is required. When (as in my original post), BT appears to allow 1,000 reset requests per day per ISP for remote resets.

Has anyone heard of this remote reset procedure actually being used in practise ?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-May-18 19:03:36
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
If you give us the main stats those will quite possibly confirm if banding is in force. Particularly if the downstream sync is identical before and after a re-sync.

DLM will often remove banding in time. Literally months though, not days. And not always without a reset.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 66321/13379Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User iefbr14
(newbie) Wed 16-May-18 20:16:54
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Since I stopped testing various alternative firmware installs and reinstalls and router swaps my downstream has been very consistent for around 16 days, zero outages or reboots :-

Currently -
Line Type - VDSL2
Attenuation ~ 20
Max downstream ~ 43 Mbps
Line Speed ~ 27 Mbps
SNR ~ 11 dB

Before the latest firmware change my stats were very consistantly :-

Line Type - VDSL2_Vectoring
Attenuation ~ 20
Max. downstream ~ 49 Mbps
Line Speed ~ 40 Mbps
SNR ~ 6dB

The loss of max speed on the downstream is as a result of vectoring not being recognised (the old firmware and other routers do recognise vectoring, this latest and greatest version doesn't. Downstream 49 Mbps with vectoring, 43 Mbps without.

Again, no issue with DLM lowering my performance because of all the testing, but the main issue is that the SNR is staying high, despite 16 days of "clean" running. Why is DLM not lowering this figure, no problems are being reported on my line ? My line was very happy at 6 dB for many years, so the permanent 11 dB is an over reaction, or lack of corrective action.

My line does seems to have had a couple of overnight re-syncs, but the numbers remain broadly the same.

The upstream shows a similar pattern, but not really worth giving all those numbers as they don't really add anything to the issue.

If remote DLM resets are now possible, a simple reset would either solve the problem or be a major diagnostic.

But again, has anyone heard of their ISP doing remote DLM resets ?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 16-May-18 21:10:21
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
If its banded it will be identical whenever there is a resync (almost always) so if it is flexing around even by a few hundred Kbps you probably are not banded

NOTE: Even if DLM resets are possible, if you ISP is denying knowledge or ability to do this then the answer would be a change of ISP

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ixel
(committed) Wed 16-May-18 22:41:55
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
As I've said in a post earlier, I requested a DLM reset of one of my FTTC lines with AAISP (via TalkTalk Business). Originally TalkTalk Business weren't part of the 'trial' so couldn't do this, but after some persistence from AAISP they now appear to be part of the trial (or at least my FTTC line had a DLM reset). I was banded until that happened. So in practice yes, it was done remotely.
Standard User iefbr14
(newbie) Thu 17-May-18 15:53:45
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Cheers.
Standard User fuzed
(regular) Thu 24-May-18 16:11:32
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Re: Remote Fibre DLM Reset.


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It appears they are possible, as I was having issues, and asked cloudscape to sort my issues out, they put the request into Zen and got the following reply 'From Zen:

I can confirm the asset is ordered as 80/20.

Current profile is "0.128M-55M Downstream 6dB, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission Low".

I've arranged for the line go to through a DLM Reset. This should happen over night. Please retest the circuit tomorrow.'
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