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Standard User ScottT
(newbie) Thu 19-Jul-18 19:32:31
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VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


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Hi folks,

I've been a user of VDSL for many years now (PlusNet 80/20, usually at near 80/20 speeds) and have generally found it to be fine (other than occasional PlusNet outages etc. - nothing out of the ordinary)

I'm now moving to a new house (Camberley, Surrey) which has both 350mbps Virgin and 80/20 VDSL available (DSLchecker suggests pretty much max 80/20 on clean line, handback at 64mbps), so my choices are now between Virgin and PlusNet

I work from home and do lots of voice/video calls, do lots of SSHing to servers and I upload a lot of data too (I need every last bit of upload speed), hence I would only go for the 350mbps package on Virgin. I always use a static IP on PlusNet as I do a lot of server firewall configs to my home so that helps, but I'm aware that you maintain your Virgin IP pretty well, as long as the SH stays on.

I've been pondering back and forth for about a month now on what to go for. I'm aware that jitter is inherently a bit higher on DOCSIS with the technology (plus the compound issues of the Intel Puma chipset in the SH3 - if that's still a thing despite newer firmwares?) - but would it be livable with? 350mbps for only about £10 a month more is very hard to resist. I would be using the SH3 in modem mode (I have a full gigabit line-speed Ubiquiti routing setup which will happily take the 350mbps, would never use a vendor provided router)

Also I've noticed Virgin have been doing a LOT of trenching work around the area thanks to plenty of roadworks delays, this all seems to be finished now, which I think/hope positively indicates that Virgin are at least investing in the area in some way, shape or form?

Any thoughts or input or comments very welcome - Virgin is tempting!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 19-Jul-18 19:53:46
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
Avoid virgin media static IP options, which is only available on business packages.

As for which is better depends a lot not the area, cable if I recall has a 14 or 30 day try it option, so you can back out if things are less than ideal, or pay a higher setup fee and take the monthly contract.

In terms of working from home, having two diverse connections will help to guard against outages

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 19-Jul-18 20:53:25
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
My Virgin BQM in signature, I'm based in Northern Ireland, so higher ping of 23-25ms is normal for me.


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Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Jul-18 21:25:28
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
Where in Camberley ? Itís an area I know pretty well.

Standard User jdigz7
(member) Fri 20-Jul-18 00:38:42
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
Our VM line has 2-12ms jitter at any time of the day.

Both our VDSL lines have 15ms with <0.5 jitter.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 20-Jul-18 01:01:37
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
If uploading a lot while working on SSH your experience will be ugly, sadly.
Standard User ScottT
(newbie) Fri 20-Jul-18 01:33:34
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the prompt answers folks, very helpful smile

@MrSaffron - Yeah I heard static IP on Virgin is a bit dodgy so I'd stick with dynamic and just hope the IP sticks for a long time. It's not the end of the world if it changes, just a bit of a pain to update in lots of firewalls! Could always just script it. And good shout on the trial point - I hadn't thought about that... that makes trying it a lot less of a risk at least

@BuckleZ - thanks for that. I also got a colleague to provide me with his IP for VM in Newbury for a BQM graph, his baseline ping looks lower but his jitter looks bigger, curiously. I wonder if it's a very street-by-street sort of thing? My current VDSL BQM for comparison

@Zarjaz - Just off of Upper Chobham Road, right at the far North East corner/Lightwater side of Camberley smile

@jdigz7 That sounds pretty consistent from what I've seen from BQMs. How noticeable do you find the difference on day to day stuff? If at all?

@Ignitionnet - Ah of course, the latency is very upload dependent isn't it? That's relatively manageable for me at least - I can pause uploads while I'm doing latency sensitive stuff (like calls or heavy SSH sessions). My heavy uploads are often during idle times (big sets of backups, working with pushing big sets of data to servers etc.)
Standard User driz
(regular) Fri 20-Jul-18 04:35:27
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
Is using https://mosh.org an option?

Personally VM is a hard no from me for jitter related (gaming) reasons, but the above might make it irrelevant.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Jul-18 06:20:15
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
So the estate of new builds on a the site of the former hospital ?

If so I think those estimates for VDSL are a bit high .....

The cab is turn right out of the estate and at the mini roundabout down the road.

Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Fri 20-Jul-18 07:55:52
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Re: VDSL vs. DOCSIS jitter - livable with?


[re: ScottT] [link to this post]
 
I'm also on VM 350m. I'm a gamer, although I don't get as much time to game as I would like these days, and I also do IT support work from home, which mostly involves RDP, SSH, Teamviewer.

I also run quite a few services at home.

The dynamic IP thing is a non issue. Even if you have the SH3 off for 24 hours, as long as the MAC of whatever is behind it as a router (I'm assuming you use modem mode here) doesn't change, you will get the same IP.

I had the same IP for about 18 months, until I changed my router from an RT-AC87u to a Ubiquiti USG. I initially even kept the same IP by cloning the WAN MAC of the Asus router, but forgot to save the config on the USG so it went back to default when it rebooted.

We don't have a phone line, only VoIP via a Siemens N510 DECT base, and never have an issue with it whatsoever. It also causes no issue with discord or teamspeak.

There are localised congestion issues, but to be honest most places even where this is the case, your "congested" single threaded speed will be more than the 80mbit you could get on VDSL anyway, and multi threaded downloads will obviously be lots higher.

Your Ubiquti USG will do dynamic dns updating to namecheap (or many other services) for you, this is what I do, then just point a domain at my IP. I have site2site VPNs from my house to a couple of different Cisco ASAs, and everything works perfectly.

When I download from Steam or Newsgroups, I can easily sustain over 40 megabytes a second.

I would not go back to FTTC... although FTTP or G.Fast would tempt me.
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